Why do I suddenly suck at running and how do I stop sucking at running?

Just a shot in the dark, but you may be overthinking your races. Go out the next race not worrying about your time and just enjoy racing. If you perform worse, so what. If you feel more relaxed and that speed starts to come back, there's your answer.

professional burnout wrote:

HS junior, haven't PRed in 2 years. Workouts are fine and everything and I keep getting better at workouts, but when I actually race it ends up going badly. For example a few weeks ago I did 4x1mile with 5 minutes between each interval and I was between 5:57 and 6:03 for all of them (on grass, fairly flat course). But my last 3 5K races have all been between 20:16 and 20:41, which means roughly 2 minutes off my PR. It doesn't seem dependent on mileage either because I've varied my mileage and had nothing change.

Is there anything specific I might be doing wrong? How do I fix this?

Yes, you're running slow.

Run faster.

professional burnout wrote:

HS junior, haven't PRed in 2 years. Workouts are fine and everything and I keep getting better at workouts, but when I actually race it ends up going badly. For example a few weeks ago I did 4x1mile with 5 minutes between each interval and I was between 5:57 and 6:03 for all of them (on grass, fairly flat course). But my last 3 5K races have all been between 20:16 and 20:41, which means roughly 2 minutes off my PR. It doesn't seem dependent on mileage either because I've varied my mileage and had nothing change.

Is there anything specific I might be doing wrong? How do I fix this?

There's not enough information here to tell you what you might be doing wrong. What does a typical 2 week training cycle look like for you? Are you running hard workouts too close to your race? How fast are you running your easy runs? I had a similar stagnation in high school, but I got way better when I changed my training completely.

Another poster said you might be overthinking your races, which could be true. I think you need to go into a race with a plan and not just run blind. If you have a teammate that's close to your speed, stick with them for the first 1.5-2 miles in the race, and then just go for it. When I ran 8k (~5 miles) in college, I would try to run the first 3 miles as controlled and relaxed as possible and run with a team mate. After that, I'd really race the last 2 miles. You could try a similar strategy in your next race.

I hadn't actually thought about that, I'll try it next time. Thank you!

Yep that's the idea!

All our weeks are more or less the same, an example of one would be

M - medium run (7-12k) with tempo intervals

T - short run (5-8k)

W - workout (5x1200m, 16x400m, 8x800m, etc.), total mileage for this day is usually 10-12k

Th - easy run (5-8k, I usually do this at 8:00-8:40 pace)

F - short run (5-8k)

Sa - race (race is always 5k, total mileage for this day is usually 10-12k)

Every other week the medium run gets replaced by a long run with tempo intervals. Long runs for my team are 8-15k (I usually end up doing 15k) and the tempo intervals mean you tempo the last 400m of every mile.

I've tried coming up with race plans before, I think I just need to work on having contingencies in case something goes wrong. I don't really have any teammates close to me, my team only has 4 upperclassmen (3 seniors and me) and the closest person to me in races is one of the seniors who's usually 90s-2min after me. Yesterday in the race I just went with a group from the other team and then when they started to split up I just tried catching them one at a time (which sort of worked but other factors got in the way and I still ran bad lol).

Oh man, this is an easy one. You’re running WAY too many hard runs and not enough mileage, which is typical of high schoolers. 3 workouts/week basically. Even being younger, you have to let your body build back its glycogen reserves as you’re ending up way too acidic. Put those intervals on a Tues, eliminate that tempo on Monday and make Wed-Fri slow long days. You’re welcome.

So space out the hard days further from races, that makes sense, thank you.

My question is wouldn't more slow long days and higher mileage make it harder to build glycogen back up? Sorry I'm not trying to be rude, just looking for clarification.

professional burnout wrote:

So space out the hard days further from races, that makes sense, thank you.

My question is wouldn't more slow long days and higher mileage make it harder to build glycogen back up? Sorry I'm not trying to be rude, just looking for clarification.

Carb up bro. Carb up like a real pro.

You don't suddenly suck at running. You suddenly realize you suck at running.

Something similar happened to me one year. It's largely mental. You need to stop overthinking and just run a hard well paced race and NOT try to hit it out of the park everyday. Just try to run your best on TT he day and let the good days come when they come. Try to go out in 6:20 the first mile then either hold that pace or speed up from there. Baby steps. First try to break 20. Then 1940. Then 1920, etc.

Also, you could be overtraininhg. But in reality its probably a little of both.

You don't get 15 mins rest in a race. That's why you can't maintain your mile workout pace

Here are a couple suggestions. I agree with "are you serious" but will provide some more detail:

Based on your training - you need to work on your endurance/base in order to improve. As a junior I suggesting building your mileage to 45-50 miles per week. I think this will help you more than any other single thing you could do. The 25-30 miles a week was ok when you were a freshman and probably helped you improve at that time - but you will not improve anymore because this is probably exactly what you have been doing for the last 2.5 years. You have a lot of room to improve and your fast times as a freshman suggest potential, but you do not have the base/engine/endurance to run fast off that low mileage.

Suggestion - for the next month your primary focus should be increasing your mileage and running your easy/recovery runs at a faster pace (under 8 min miles, 9 min miles are too slow for your goals). I would start will bumping all your 3 mile runs up to 4, 5, 6, and maybe even 7 miles (go up one mile per week) over the next month. I would add in a long run each week - work your way up but you should be hitting 10-12 miles for your long run in 4-6 weeks. A day off every 2-3 weeks is cool, but at this point one day off every week is holding your training back.

Right now you are training to "survive" a 5K - if you want to "race" a 5k then you need to make some changes. Increasing your mileage will completely transform your aerobic base, right now you don't have any base because you have been running 3 miles a day/3 times a week and taking a day off. That's 9 miles in 4 days and that just won't come anywhere close to cutting it. I'm surprised you are running as well as you have been!

You will be a different athlete in a month, capable of improving quite a bit, but you have to put the miles in. Your body is tell you that it is not "ready" to run a 5k with you training you have been doing. When you start doing the right training, you will improve a ton. It is more important to train smart than hard - right now you are killing yourself and accomplishing very little.

Without any endurance base most of the short/fast speed work won't matter much. For you to get to the next level, you have to put in the base work, you need to add miles to your runs, take less days off, pick up the pace a little on your easy days, and incorporated long runs into your training.

5. At this point, workouts and racing are much less important than establishing an aerobic base. The aerobic base is essential to your long term success.

If you are doing a track work out with your team at this point you will get a lot more aerobic benefit from tempo runs or longer intervals like mile repeats and 1200s. Make sure you do at least a 2 mile warm up and cool down so you are getting some miles in. After have a good aerobic base, mixing in some shorter stuff is OK - but I think that 400 repeats have limited utility for you at this point (different story when you have the base training done).

You don't need to be racing all out every week. I would treat your next several races as tempo runs with a 2 mile warm up, 3 mile progressive tempo, and a 2 mile cool down. I would try something along the lines of 6:40, 6:30, and then faster for the last mile. That would allow you get a decent workout, good daily mileage, improve your 5K time a little each week, and avoid racing all out while you are building your base.

Speed is only beneficial when you have a base. To be good at xc and the 5K+ distances you have to have strength/endurance as well as speed.

If you focus on your aerobic base I think you will be a transformed athlete in a month to 6 weeks.

Nah I always knew, it's just that now I suck worse than I used to from an objective standpoint (i.e. 18:26 5K to 20:41 5K)

Disagree a little with some of the other advice here. I think three harder efforts in a week is fine, as long as the strenuousness of each workout is taken into consideration. Are your workouts all HARD? Or do you finish some of them feeling pretty good, like you could do a few more intervals and be fine? If they're all really hard, then yes, you're working out too much.

Agree that the mileage wants to creep upwards a bit; just keep in mind that when people on here are quoting weekly totals they are usually thinking about 7 days per week of running. I think it's fine to only run 6 as a high schooler, just adjust the weekly goals accordingly. Seven days is better if and when your body can handle it (best to make this transition during a non-competitive, base-building season).

*sorry for a lot of text here, but I think this will really help you*

Saying you run 400s, 800s, and 1200s means nothing unless you specify the pace or relative effort you're running at. They could be at easy pace for all I know. If you're running them all around 5k race pace, then that's the problem. You're already running 5k race pace in the RACE on the weekends, so you've covered that base. You need to do stamina training -- i.e threshold, CV, and tempo work. Vo2 max training, typically around 3k-5k pace work, elevates performance but has the negative consequence of extreme fatigue. If you do that kind of work 2x/week repeatedly, your performance will increase at first but then suffer continually after that. My advice: run the Wednesday workouts at a slower pace. You can't change the structure of the workout your coach gives you (i.e 4 x 1200) but you can change the pace so that you'll actually improve.

Run at threshold pace for longer intervals and CV pace for shorter intervals. For threshold pace, run at CURRENT (i.e. the pace you can run TODAY) 5k pace + 25-30 seconds/mile. For CV, run about 5k pace + 15 seconds/mile

As for your easy runs, you seem spot on right now -- don't change anything. I wouldn't go faster than 8:30 right now. Once you get back into the 18's, then I wouldn't go faster than 8:00. Don't worry about your easy pace very much. What really matters is that you do your key workouts well -- they contribute a lot more to your overall fitness (don't neglect the easy runs though).

Others have said that you should increase your mileage, and I agree. Increase the length of your longest runs first, before you start to increase your shorter runs. Try to add no more than 30 minutes per week until you get to a reasonable level, though you can add less and do it more gradually if you want. The easy way to do this is to increase the length of your warmups and cool downs before and after your workouts. If you're already running 20 minutes easy as a warmup, that's long enough, but if you aren't doing that then you should start. You can run 10, 15, or 25 minutes easy after the conclusion of a workout as well. Cool downs are very important in general because they return your body to homeostasis and lower the stress hormone levels that come with workouts. You'll recover faster with a good cool down.

Diet? Sleep?

professional burnout wrote:

HS junior, haven't PRed in 2 years. Workouts are fine and everything and I keep getting better at workouts, but when I actually race it ends up going badly. For example a few weeks ago I did 4x1mile with 5 minutes between each interval and I was between 5:57 and 6:03 for all of them (on grass, fairly flat course). But my last 3 5K races have all been between 20:16 and 20:41, which means roughly 2 minutes off my PR. It doesn't seem dependent on mileage either because I've varied my mileage and had nothing change.

Is there anything specific I might be doing wrong? How do I fix this?

Here's the harsh reality: you likely don't have any talent for running and your workouts are simply reflecting that. Training only helps a person see the limits of their talent, it cannot create new ones. 4x1mile while barely breaking 6 minutes is pretty bad even for a high school runner. That workout is typical of someone who can barely break 20min for 5k. If you are seeing no indications of fast performances in training or races after 2 years, you have begun to realize your limits. You should keep training as there are still major health benefits but I can't imagine a coach keeping around a 20min 5k junior for very long. Being competitive just isn't in your genes.

I'm sorry. Not everyone can be a good runner.

I like the general principles that Kicker described in his post, but I'm not sure he's used to working with someone at your relative speeds. For someone at your current fitness level, I would lean more towards 25s between gears compared to his suggested 15s.

Your current 5k pace, whether you like it or not, is 6:30/mile. Let's call your CV 6:55 and T 7:20. Here are actual aerobic workouts that our 19:30-21:30 group has put together in recent weeks:

5 x 3'30" @ CV (90" jog recovery)

8 x 3' @ T (60" jog recovery)

5 x 5' progression @ M->T->CV (3' jog recovery)

Note the much slower speeds but the shorter active recovery.

Our anaerobic workouts tend to have very short workbouts but maintain active recovery:

2x5x60s hill climbs @ 5k->3k effort (walk back || jog back btw sets)

2x6x200m @ 3k (100j||400j btw sets)

You'll notice that our 20:30 kids are only asked to cover 2400m at 3k pace compared to your 6400m at 3k, but our kids complete the work more aerobically, recover quicker, are able to run more mileage the next day, and race faster on the weekend.

Let your races be your long bouts at race effort. Your long intervals should tend towards more aerobic work with shorter recovery. Your short intervals should tend towards more anaerobic work with active recovery, utilizing sets. As you're doing things at present, your "tempo" run is so short and so intermittent that it's not actually a tempo run, and your principal workout has such long bouts that you're building too much acid (easy recipe for burnout) and having to take so much recovery that your work is not translating to race performance.