W&M Cuts Men's Track & Field - WARNING All NCAA Track/XC Programs Now at Risk

distancerunningwizard wrote:

I agree! We need to build more of a club system for kids once they leave high school. Guys like Nico Young should just get sponsorship go pro.

Really? I didn't realize professional running was a lucrative and lifelong career.

Even the very very top runners still need a college degree. Not to mention the rest of the also-rans

Hopefully this is just the beginning of the end for NCAA running. Ideally, the whole NCAA idea bites the dust soon.

not zachary levet wrote:

also why only men's track and field?

Literally their best athlete in 5 years has been Chris Short and he hasn’t even broken 1:50. It’s hard to watch because they do have good coaches. It’s been a dying program for awhile now.

Carson Bixs ego wrote:

not zachary levet wrote:

also why only men's track and field?

Literally their best athlete in 5 years has been Chris Short and he hasn’t even broken 1:50. It’s hard to watch because they do have good coaches. It’s been a dying program for awhile now.

Also Zach Levet sucks

Hold on now.... wrote:

Hopefully this is just the beginning of the end for NCAA running. Ideally, the whole NCAA idea bites the dust soon.

A bunch of bitter people too slow to run in the NCAA keep posting in this topic.

I guess the question for William and Mary (and many other schools). What does intercollegiate athletics provide for the university? School pride? Extracurricular activity for interested students? Bonds between alumni? William and Mary will have no problem getting great students. Is Intercollegiate Athletics as important to colleges as Greek life? If William and Mary banned fraternities and sororities would that hurt their admissions?

General Cornwallis wrote:

shootpost wrote:

Academic and Athletic pots of money are separate. So you can do that.

I guess the question for William and Mary (and many other schools). What does intercollegiate athletics provide for the university? School pride? Extracurricular activity for interested students? Bonds between alumni? William and Mary will have no problem getting great students. Is Intercollegiate Athletics as important to colleges as Greek life? If William and Mary banned fraternities and sororities would that hurt their admissions?

I can't comment on Williams and Mary.

But for most schools its marketing.

But the university I went to is a very solid, well respected state school.

We also have a very good football team. The prestige and reputation of the university has grown with the prestife of the football team. Without the football team we would be a very meh university in a rural area no one has heard of.

distancerunningwizard wrote:

I agree! We need to build more of a club system for kids once they leave high school. Guys like Nico Young should just get sponsorship go pro.

Let's play this idea out a bit. Take away college running and replace it with a club system. How extensive can that system be? If a kid wants to keep running while he's in college that could work just fine of he's in an area large enough to support a number of clubs. You could go to school now in New York DC, LA, and even loads of mid sized cities, maybe Williamsburg, and start a club that would be able to find competitions for club members that will cost almost nothing to get to.

But what about someone who goes to school In Hamilton, NY, Loretto, Pa., Greely, Co, Las Cruces, NM, etc? That kid is probably going to race against the locals and not much of anyone else. The club is not likely to be able to afford to send many athletes to areas where they'll race against decent athletes who are their own age consistently. If the whole system of college running were to collapse here eventually something may replace it. But there will be a huge gap where that system had been for quite a while.

Like others have stated, W&M is making the bet they can replace those tuition dollars with an equally deserving applicant without the athletics cost. W&M is still strong enough academically that this logic is probably reasonable. Furman made a similar bet recently but I don't think think the school is strong enough academically to replace all the full-pay lacrosse and baseball players that will ultimately not apply. Other schools are taking the opposite tact - they want to use a D-1 locker and spot to attract full-pays (see High Point). When Eastern Michigan cut swimming there was a very interesting analysis along these lines. Good read if you can find it.

Didn’t they just have a guy run in the 13:40s?

Yeah JP Trojan. Not to mention Miles Owens ran sub 150 2 yrs ago

Dr. Pepper wrote:

Like others have stated, W&M is making the bet they can replace those tuition dollars with an equally deserving applicant without the athletics cost. W&M is still strong enough academically that this logic is probably reasonable. Furman made a similar bet recently but I don't think think the school is strong enough academically to replace all the full-pay lacrosse and baseball players that will ultimately not apply. Other schools are taking the opposite tact - they want to use a D-1 locker and spot to attract full-pays (see High Point). When Eastern Michigan cut swimming there was a very interesting analysis along these lines. Good read if you can find it.

There is an accounting professor at Eastern Michigan, Howard Bunsis, who has provided interesting analysis through the years on sports costs and value to universities.

Short summary report after Eastern Michigan cut four sports a couple of years ago.

yeah-the notion that sports are a running (no pun intended) a significant net loss to universities doesn't wash--especially ones such as track---COVID was a nice excuse for overpaid administrators to put their agendas in action...the process had started prior to 2020, but this seemed to be a good excuse to cut "unnecessary" costs as administrators keep their well-paying jobs intact...

Portland Hobby Jogger wrote:

I was smoking with the boys upstairs when I heard about the whole affair and said, "Whoa, no!".

Thanks for this post, a really great song. For those who don't know the reference: My Old School by Steely Dan. Apparently Fagan attended a college that was sometimes known as the W&M of the North.

General Cornwallis wrote:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1W8pVvbs3ww0F106hwoEDPO7CQX2u4s7r/view

Short summary report after Eastern Michigan cut four sports a couple of years ago.

The most insane thing from that document is the Wrestling and Softball head coaches make a combined 213 K (with the Sball Assistants having another 100K of salary). They went 11-39 how is that even justified at all. Guess I need to try to snag a job there if they're paying that sort of cash.

They do not have good coaches. It's been a sinking ship. Their women lost to Elon and Delaware at the CAA Championships. Braden has struggled.

They used to consistently send women's teams to the NCAA Championships. They haven't been in the top 10 in their region with Braden as the coach. Sad.

William and Mary....is well William and Mary. No worries.

More worried about college wrestling than xc

Ran at the D1 level now coach in Australia. The club system is pretty good as if you have any talent as a junior you can find good coaching in major cities. Competition on the other hand you have to travel. Just look how the Aussies are running at the moment.

Had a high schooler run a 1:52 800m with 5 guys in the field in front of maybe 150 people in attendance at the meet which included that athletes competing in different events.

William & Mary in the day had Vandegrift, Hyde, and Cuavas and such a good program. Shame for it to go.

The NCAA system is fantastic and I hope that more uni's don't follow this path. It is a shame for sure.