How do you all handle treadmill workouts?

Hardloper wrote:

[quote]it is, what it is wrote:

[quote]Hardloper wrote:

It is better to just run a few workouts each way and settle the debate for yourself.

I was disappointedly shocked to find out how bad I had regressed when I went back to the track after spending a few weeks on the treadmill. But true, there were a lot of factors at play, and I want to go back to the track and get good heart rate data to compare with what I already posted for the 4x4min on the treadmill.

My original plan was to go to the track last night and run a 2x4min, with the first interval trying to hold a 6:54 pace, per the Hillrunner.com site conversion, and the second interval at 7:30 pace, thinking the latter may be closer to the treadmill HR data. (But the weather was too blustery/rainy to perform the track session.)

Of course developing leg strength for running is important. It just doesn't make sense to do it every day. I'm sure most people here are familiar with that Frank Shorter quip, but let me ask you this: Since hills are speedwork in disguise, would you do speedwork every day? Of course not. Let your body recover.

sorry if this is lame wrote:

be more specific wrote:

Let's start at square one. Can you show your work? I am skeptical that a correctly applied conversion formula would feel shockingly inaccurate.

Well, I haven't yet gone to the trouble of verifying the speed of my gym's treadmill, but I would be shocked if it was so out of wack (but I dunno).

no no no. I was not asking you to verify the speed of the treadmill. Show us the numbers you used. What treadmill (speeds + grades) did you translate to outdoor speeds? I think that you have done the math incorrectly, or you have plugged numbers into the wrong places.

Do not skip this step, because I am nearly certain it is where the confusion lies.

Don't show me anything you recorded on your watch. Don't explain your subjective experience while running. Don't give me theoretical explanations for what you thought happened. Just show me the theoretical pace conversions.

sorry if this is lame wrote:

so why is it still a topic of question, per the countless thread debates on treadmill 'equivalency'?

Because runners are OBSESSED with finding a way to objectively compare efforts. For non-elite runners, there is only one opponent: the clock. So everyone on this site is ridiculously obsessed with times. As long as those times are outside on a track. But what about rolling hills? What about a treadmill? What about?

Reality is, people will keep coming to this forum to see how they measure up. That is the crowd: "am I fast (enough)?? Am I worthy?? I can't tell if I'm worthy! Someone objectively telllll meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee"

Give me a very talented runner and a treadmill and I create a new world record holder even at the North or South pole. ))) The treadmill is a tremendous pace maker.

- Magic on the treadmill - :)

The Wizard JS wrote:

I create a new world record holder even at the North or South pole. )))

Wow JS, transitioning from using two closing parentheses for no reason to using THREE closing parentheses for no reason? Where did you learn this typographic tic, and what does it mean?

Also, does your re-appearance on the boards mean the david45 character is being retired for a bit??

be more specific wrote:

sorry if this is lame wrote:

Well, I haven't yet gone to the trouble of verifying the speed of my gym's treadmill, but I would be shocked if it was so out of wack (but I dunno).

no no no. I was not asking you to verify the speed of the treadmill. Show us the numbers you used. What treadmill (speeds + grades) did you translate to outdoor speeds? I think that you have done the math incorrectly, or you have plugged numbers into the wrong places.

Do not skip this step, because I am nearly certain it is where the confusion lies.

... Just show me the theoretical pace conversions.

???

I already did in this thread. I gave the conversion numbers from the Treadmill Calculator and from the chart at hillrunner.com.

???

BTW, on this thread I go by both handles "it is, what it is" and "sorry if this is lame".

Kicker wrote:

Of course developing leg strength for running is important. It just doesn't make sense to do it every day. I'm sure most people here are familiar with that Frank Shorter quip, but let me ask you this: Since hills are speedwork in disguise, would you do speedwork every day? Of course not. Let your body recover.

The treadmill can be valuable for a number of different reasons, and one can add incline to get the same rate of exertion (based on equivalent metabolic cost per heart rate measurements) with less impact on the joints.

Recovery from a workout is going to greatly depend upon how high the heart rate was, and for what length of time. I can tell you from personal experience that keeping it in the 90-95% MaxHR 'sweet spot' is a lot less taxing than if one tries to repeatedly push it into the 95-100% MaxHR.

Kicker wrote:

Of course not. Let your body recover.

It just occurred to me that maybe my apparent less-than-stellar condition at the track may have been partially due to lack of recovery? I stack on pool workouts and strength training workouts, and I've basically been ignoring the Garmin watch recommendations to "rest for x amount of hours".

Doh.

I don't do the treadmill. I run outside.