Are Team Ingebrigtsen too good to be true?

Realism & continuity wrote:

P.s took me 20min to write this post, or did it? You'll have to take my word for it.

Did you lay it out do a rough draft and then edit , or was it a stream of thought kind of thing?

stream of thought ;]

Realism & continuity wrote:

3000m Isaac Carlos 1243 (7:29.34)

Never heard of Isaac Carlos. Do you mean Isaac Plaza?

I'll try to answer your questions/(allegations) point by point:

- Apporach to training: Much has been written about this before. The Ingebrigtsens are aerobic monsters and are training significantly more just under their aerobic threshold than most runners before them. They do this through relatively short intervals allowing them to run relatively near their race pace. Do you fancy a 25x400m, r:30sec at 62-pace, that's a 12.55 5000m and something they do in training as a threshold session with low lactate level. Many athletes have trained well before the Ingebrigtsens, but have there really been that many runners following the same training regime with a passionate fathercoach with the same attention to detail and training intensity? I seriously doubt there are many such examples. Albeit his training was quite different, Seb Coe had a similarly committed father though..

- Talent probability: I consider the Ingebrigtsens mainly to be training products, there are probably more talented runners on the circuit. However, you should not completely discount the Ingebrigtsen's talent. Henrik did some cross-country skiing when he was a junior, and eventually won the youth national championship with very limited snow-time earlier in that season. Norway tend to produce some of the finest cross-country skiers in the world, a sport which is often considered as one of the most demanding endurance sports in the world. Still, Henrik may not be the most talented Ingebrigtsen, so the family is undoubtably gifted by strong endurance genes. I think their mother actually has measured abnormally high Hemoglobine levels, and I consider it even less likely that she has used PED than 13 year old Jakob who was already then crushing records. Jakobs progression from a youth is really not that spectacular, its just that his starting point was at a whole different level than most teenagers.

- Technology: I think this is an important contributor. I doubt that the shoes Jakob ran with in Monaco was any inferior to those that propelled a certain runner into a WR in the 5000m

- Build: Fully agreed, Jakob doesn't look like your traditional runner, but his engine is certainly big enough to get him around the track quite quikely. Give him a tough XC course and his performance level drops significantly (as seen during the Word XC in Denmark a couple of years ago).

So you're basically saying - are team Ingebrigtsen too white to be competing with Africans naturally?

Herb Elliott ran 3.35 on a cinders track virtually solo at age 21 in the 1960 Olympic final. The world record had still been 3:49 only a couple of decades previously. What peds was he taking?

Jim Ryun ran crazy times on cinders at a similar age to Jakob in the 60"s.

What would Steve Cram have ran the other night in peak (85 mile wr) shape on the Monaco track in carbon plated shoes? 3:25? What if he had been raised as the 3rd brother in the Ingebrigtsen family?

If he runs 12 30 for 5K them sure you can ask how he is so much faster than any non African on history. But at 1500m,, wait until he runs 3:24.

Yes I would say none of this is too shocking. It’s definitely a very talented family, but it’s not shocking to see very talented white athletes in the middle distances. This isn’t like if they were ripping fast 100-200s as White dudes with unusual builds and the youngest one ran 9.75 at age 19.

dude has to preface with apologies and professions of love then still gets accused of racism by clowns that say whatever about any and every african runner...

I will say, their build is definitely larger than most runners in the circuit. They are quite muscular and a little bulkier but it definitely works. I have to think that the father being able to micromanage their lives really helps them get those extra 1%’s. I remember watching their show and Filip was going on vacation with his girlfriend but would be arriving to their training camp a day late. His father refused to let him go saying he had to be at the camp as soon as they started to make sure they hit the perfect training block. That kind of dedication definitely helps.

Their father has extraordinary high hemoglobin levels. They are not the first scandinavians with that. Just look at some of the skiers. 16% of European population have two actn3xx while it is only found in 1% of africans. It makes it next to impossible to become a world class sprinter but possible to have muscles without losing endurance. I don't know if they are actn3xx but it wouldn't surprise me

At least Henrik and Jakob

Yes they are, no way he runs faster over 1500m then Mo without help

FinnJ wrote:

Their father has extraordinary high hemoglobin levels. They are not the first scandinavians with that. Just look at some of the skiers. 16% of European population have two actn3xx while it is only found in 1% of africans. It makes it next to impossible to become a world class sprinter but possible to have muscles without losing endurance. I don't know if they are actn3xx but it wouldn't surprise me

Then how come you don't see European countries dominate distance running in the Olympics?

You'll be rewriting the same post once Tinman's latest group makes their way on to the scene. They'll make the Ingebritsens look like the amateurs they are.

3.30 was just believable.

3.28 outrageous. Fishy Norway have had a history of doping just like Kenya. You’d be dumb to rule the sauce out during lockdown.

david45 wrote:

FinnJ wrote:

Their father has extraordinary high hemoglobin levels. They are not the first scandinavians with that. Just look at some of the skiers. 16% of European population have two actn3xx while it is only found in 1% of africans. It makes it next to impossible to become a world class sprinter but possible to have muscles without losing endurance. I don't know if they are actn3xx but it wouldn't surprise me

Then how come you don't see European countries dominate distance running in the Olympics?

Finland dominated distance running when we were poor.

Distance running takes crazy dedication and it's basically one of the worst economic decisions one can make when you think about all the other options available (in sports and in life) for an average northener.

flyingfinnn wrote:

david45 wrote:

Then how come you don't see European countries dominate distance running in the Olympics?

Finland dominated distance running when we were poor.

Distance running takes crazy dedication and it's basically one of the worst economic decisions one can make when you think about all the other options available (in sports and in life) for an average northener.

Those talented for distance running usually suck at any other sport.

And most people don't chose to practice a sport for money but for fun or for competition because they are good at it.

It's not like they have to choose between being the next Cristiano Ronaldo or hardly make a living by being a elite runner.

But what is right is rich countries develop a lifestyle that is detrimental to running (food, alcohol, drugs, working in offices rather than outside, watching TV and play viode games instead od playing around when kids etc).

And that is a big disavantage for European or North American compared to Africans.

But it is not the only reason for African superiority in running (which is a fact, nothing racist about that).

That said. I believe the brothers are doped.

The main red flag is that they all seem to get along. I'm the oldest of five boys and have three sons. We picked different sports to not have to compete against each other. If my younger brother was better than me at track I'd probably quit. Huge red flag.

That’s a ver good point. You’d think Henrik at least would no longer wish to compete and Filip isn’t really getting anywhere. They are basically training as a support act for Jakob hahah. It doesn’t seem to be in their benefit, unless they are splitting the profit. Sounds like an incentive, doping system in place.

Are saying that only the 2 best runners in the US in each event should continue?