Dragonfly spikes Cheptegei was wearing: they aren't actually carbon fiber, correct?

Its just like Swimming has been for decades now, most the world records are because of advances in swimsuit technology, water flow patterns of the pools, etc.

This "shoe expert" doesn't know anything. Those are normal "Dragonflies," end of. As far as I can see, the prototypes used much of 2018/2019 are pretty much unchanged in this current iteration.

Wouldn’t it be better just wear a pair of Jasari?

biodome wrote:

Wouldn’t it be better just wear a pair of Jasari?

While I haven't tried the Dragonfly or the Zoom Air Victory, spike technology hasn't really changed to much over the last 25 years. I would take a new pair of the Ventulas or Jasaris over anything new that comes out.

Shoe expert. wrote:

The Cheptegei's of this world don't necessarily have the same off the shelf shoes as you hobby joggers. They want you to believe you're buying the same thing, if the shoes of the Cheptegei's of this world have something in them that the off the shelf ones don't they're not going to tell you, .

In the past this is true. After the recent rules, they are now what is sold to the public.

another perspective wrote:

This "shoe expert" doesn't know anything. Those are normal "Dragonflies," end of. As far as I can see, the prototypes used much of 2018/2019 are pretty much unchanged in this current iteration.

They are significantly different from the prototypes.

What the difference between his Dragonfly spikes and crappy Dragonfly spikes?

moran112312 wrote:

What the difference between his Dragonfly spikes and crappy Dragonfly spikes?

There isn’t. It’s the same shoe. It depends on which run of the spike production the particular athlete’s rep received. If you want the “elite” version of the Dragonfly, that was what was given to those in Doha. There were also some athletes that received a 3D printed plate on top of the special Doha upper. This is no longer permitted.

Milethon wrote:

biodome wrote:

Wouldn’t it be better just wear a pair of Jasari?

While I haven't tried the Dragonfly or the Zoom Air Victory, spike technology hasn't really changed to much over the last 25 years. I would take a new pair of the Ventulas or Jasaris over anything new that comes out.

I think you would be shocked at the difference. Though, I understand your sentimental feeling for the Jasari. It was ahead of its time.

No they aren't and just for those who believe carbon fiber plates are new and magical - the Jasari had a carbon fiber plate/shank option back in the late 90's and the Vic elite (almost all editions of it I believe) had the same.

https://cdn10.bigcommerce.com/s-8va9tp6q/products/103/images/500/NZVEM1_5__92462.1453077152.1280.1280.jpg?c=2

Oh and the adidas Prime SP plate is made from carbon nanotube technology - both the new and old one from 2012

https://www.adidas.com/us/adizero-prime-sprint-spikes/B37494.html

So everyone just pour some ice water on their little hard "carbon fiber plates are unfair" stiffies - they have existed literally for decades.

Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:

No they aren't and just for those who believe carbon fiber plates are new and magical - the Jasari had a carbon fiber plate/shank option back in the late 90's and the Vic elite (almost all editions of it I believe) had the same.

https://cdn10.bigcommerce.com/s-8va9tp6q/products/103/images/500/NZVEM1_5__92462.1453077152.1280.1280.jpg?c=2

Oh and the adidas Prime SP plate is made from carbon nanotube technology - both the new and old one from 2012

https://www.adidas.com/us/adizero-prime-sprint-spikes/B37494.html

So everyone just pour some ice water on their little hard "carbon fiber plates are unfair" stiffies - they have existed literally for decades.

^^^

This man knows what he is talking about.

Any reason he didn't wear the Air Zoom Victories? Is the Dragonfly a more "natural" feeling shoe or something? Maybe the 2 different midsole materials in the Victory feels awkward for some athlete's?

It just seems like the Air Victory is the technically superior shoe, much like the Alphafly is to the Vaporfly.

moran112312 wrote:

Any reason he didn't wear the Air Zoom Victories? Is the Dragonfly a more "natural" feeling shoe or something? Maybe the 2 different midsole materials in the Victory feels awkward for some athlete's?

It just seems like the Air Victory is the technically superior shoe, much like the Alphafly is to the Vaporfly.

Excellent question. The DF is significantly less aggressive than the Vic. If there are any achilles difficulties, the Vic should not be the choice. You have the Ingebrigtsen Brothers to thank for resurrecting the DF in 2018 (you will note Jakob prefers this for even 1500m but Filip the Vic).

RVK wrote:

moran112312 wrote:

Any reason he didn't wear the Air Zoom Victories? Is the Dragonfly a more "natural" feeling shoe or something? Maybe the 2 different midsole materials in the Victory feels awkward for some athlete's?

It just seems like the Air Victory is the technically superior shoe, much like the Alphafly is to the Vaporfly.

Excellent question. The DF is significantly less aggressive than the Vic. If there are any achilles difficulties, the Vic should not be the choice. You have the Ingebrigtsen Brothers to thank for resurrecting the DF in 2018 (you will note Jakob prefers this for even 1500m but Filip the Vic).

Thanks for that information, very interesting!

Cheptegei has admitted on twitter they had a carbon plate so it wasnt the standard DF. I think I've heard this 'who cares it's a level playing field' argument before but it's not. PEDs have become Performance Enhancing Devices. I mean athletics has now condoned this clandestine process to prototype shoes in races so we're back to an 'arms race' between teams/sponsors. They try to make us believe it is something we could buy but it isn't and probably never will be. Basically you have to knock off X% for any pro performance due to unfair advantages they have vs us punters.

... and vs any former WRs. Good old progress at any cost. Shame.

I think we can accept that in any track race not on cinders, if a runner is wearing spikes they need to have a star against their time as it was done with a spring, an unfair advantage shoe

another perspective wrote:

This "shoe expert" doesn't know anything. Those are normal "Dragonflies," end of.

It's now "end of".

They had carbon plate wrote:

Cheptegei has admitted on twitter they had a carbon plate so it wasnt the standard DF.

The WR of Cheptegei can also open a new chapter about the rule not allowing athletes to run on track with Vaporfly or racing shoes without spikes withy thickness higher than 25 mm.

This rule was studied in the erroneous convinction that Vaporfly could give advantage against spiked shoes in every distance of the track.

Now, we have the same WR holder for the distance of 5 km (road) and 5000m (track). Cheptegei ran his WR on the road wearing Vaporfly (12'51"), ed his WR on track wearing Dragonfly with spikes (12'35"). Similar conditions of shape, fast race on the road in Valencia, and better weather compared with Monaco. At the end, we have a difference of 3" per km, clearly showing Dragonfly are, on track, faster than Vaporlfy.

At this point, really it's not possible to understand the reasons adopted by WA for considering illegal the racing shoes (with the sole more thick than 25 mm) that the most part of specialists of long distance use, and that are already validated for road competition, during a competition on track lasting one hour or more, since no advantage there is against other competitors (all coming from road races) and other spiked shoes.