Are 95% of Sub 3 Marathoners Addicts?

I exhibit secrecy. I run to and from work with a backpack and sometimes I'm told that I'm needed at home earlier for the kids or something, so to get the train. But it's only a few minutes difference so I run anyway and change back to normal clothes round the corner.

The first person who brought up this side-post about how easy sub-3 is was just being a typical LR wannabe bragger.

Yeah, outside of the majors and high profile regional races like CIM or Houston it’s not all that common. Sounds like you’re probably more gifted at running than you realize though because a 5k in the 17s is still pretty decent. I come from a football and basketball background, having played with numerous guys who now play in the NFL or played in the NFL. I’d run circles around nearly all of them - I had to simply tire guys out because I wasn’t athletic enough, simple as that. Worked pretty well most days despite them being elite athletes whereas I’m not. I only say that because I’ve been running for the past 4 years and still haven’t broken 3 or even run sub-18. Been running about 360 miles per month since March and finally think I’m in shape to do it but it’s been a long road and, because of COVID, I still haven’t had the chance to test it. I could outwork and tire out elite level athletes yet still haven’t broken 3. It’s not an easy task for the vast majority of people - it’s actually a pretty big deal and far from an “average” result.

Jim Rat wrote:

If you (the general 'you') ever had the goal of a ~3:00 hour marathon, then I guarantee that you talked about running more than the people around you wanted to hear about it. If you kept running for a few years, then you learned that no one else wants to hear about it and you don't talk about it very much anymore.

this is true.

Are you heavy? That would be a big factor that would make long distance running a lot more challenging. And by heavy, I mean a BMI over 25. Not just "heavy for a runner," but actually carrying more excess weight than is required. I gave up that excess weight from sports when I realized that no one in an adult rec league or pick-up game is going to stop me in the paint anyway.

It does sound outrageous that someone who is running 90 mpw wouldn't break a 3:00 hour marathon easily (unless the person is quite heavy).

Jim Rat wrote:

Signs of addiction according to the Mayo Clinic:

Always wanting more

Constantly needing more

Continuing despite negative outcomes

Inability to follow rules you have set

Not being able to stop

Obsessing

Replacing relationships

Secrecy

How many Sub 3 Marathoners can't say yes to at least 3 items on the list?

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I seriously doubt that these traits apply to most people who run sub-3 marathons. IMO, the addiction metaphor is too widely-applied. It now includes everthing that requires persistence and hard work--or, as another poster said, passion.

The rigidity and structure of running surely attracts people who have pre-existing problems with obsessive thinking and self-destruction, or precipitates these problems in people who have the tendency to develop them. We're more likely to hear about these stories of pathology, especially in these times. People aren't interested in "boring" stories about runners who work hard, weather failures on the road to success, don't have eating disorders or body image problems, and enjoy time off from running. So, we don't hear those (likely more common) stories as often.

Davis45 wrote:

Are you heavy? That would be a big factor that would make long distance running a lot more challenging. And by heavy, I mean a BMI over 25. Not just "heavy for a runner," but actually carrying more excess weight than is required. I gave up that excess weight from sports when I realized that no one in an adult rec league or pick-up game is going to stop me in the paint anyway.

It does sound outrageous that someone who is running 90 mpw wouldn't break a 3:00 hour marathon easily (unless the person is quite heavy).

I got my BMI to 24.9 but I was pretty shredded...don’t know what the body fat was but had a very, very defined 6 pack. Usually have it around 26-27 because otherwise I’m irritable, constantly hungry, and just don’t feel good. Still have a decent 6 pack even at that BMI, just not as good. Still muscular but not bodybuilder style.

Also have pretty decent speed. Rarely ever got outrun on the football field or basketball court. I don’t do many track workouts but doing reps of 400s at 75 and 200s at 30 is pretty reasonable. I do decent at faster ultras with less technical terrain (more running) and did a 41 miler with just one walk break for about 100 feet to avoid choking on some cookies from the aid station a couple of years ago but am in much better shape now. Basically, it’s not like my body can’t handle 26.2. Would hopefully break 3 if I could race today but my PR was last summer with a 3:07.

My point is that breaking 3 is really, really hard. You can train hard, eat well, and have decent speed and still struggle to hit it. Kudos to those who it came easy to but for the vast majority of us, it’s work. A lot of work.

Murdock wrote:

I got my BMI to 24.9 but I was pretty shredded...don’t know what the body fat was but had a very, very defined 6 pack. Usually have it around 26-27 because otherwise I’m irritable, constantly hungry, and just don’t feel good. Still have a decent 6 pack even at that BMI, just not as good. Still muscular but not bodybuilder style.

...

My point is that breaking 3 is really, really hard. You can train hard, eat well, and have decent speed and still struggle to hit it. Kudos to those who it came easy to but for the vast majority of us, it’s work. A lot of work.

Breaking 3 is good for anyone. Breaking 3 is not really, really hard.

Weight is definitely the reason that breaking 3 is really, really hard for you. I'm not saying that you aren't very fit by any means, but carrying that much weight over 26.2 miles is challenging. For me, the difference between a BMI of 26 and 23 is massive when it comes to my running performance, exponentially so over long distances. I cut some weight (somewhat intentionally, somewhat just came naturally since I was lifting less and running more) when I was training for a marathon. The hunger and sluggishness is only a transient that goes away once you are used to your new weight. After all of that, I realized that I really didn't lose any functional strength by being lighter but I can run faster and jump higher, so I just maintained the lower weight. I always lifted a bit but never took it too seriously. I think that the lighter weight will be better for my running and overall health in the long run.

You have your own priorities, and hopefully you'll break 3 at whatever weight you want. I'm just saying that if you dropped a little weight, then you would find it very noticeable in your running.

Check the divorce rate statistics. Endurance sports are hard on relationships.

redZonesRunner wrote:

Check the divorce rate statistics. Endurance sports are hard on relationships.

What statistics?

I ran one marathon. 2:49. I'm an alcoholic. Does that count?

Just Another wrote:

nonary ant wrote:

... And don't even get me started on birdwatchers doing their "big year".

Wait, what? Tell us more.

There's a movie 'The Big Year' starring Jack Black. If you have ever known anyone serious about birdwatching, you'll know that it's hardly exaggerating anything.

Whether it's an addiction is debatable. It can be for some. Here's my cautionary tale. I got into trying to break three hours. After a couple of years of hard work, I did with a 2:54. I should have stopped there. But 2:54 wasn't enough. I thought I could get faster, and that I should keep on marathon training forever. So over the course of the next 5 years I kept on. I went on to break three hours two more times. Once at Boston. But to do so I neglected my wife. I was constantly tired, and didn't have time for her emotional side. My priority on too many days was fitting in my run. Not my family, not my kids, not my wife. Now, my wife is divorcing me. The emotional disengagement, admittedly caused by my running, is a big part of it. Not the only part, but upon reflection, if I had stopped marathon running 5 years ago when I ran the 2:54, I can honestly say I wouldn't be getting divorced. And I can tell you my marriage means a lot more to me than breaking three. I'd give up a sub three thon in a heartbeat to have her back.

You sure about that? It's not like you woke up 5 years later and realized you were being neglectful. In fact, you probably knew it every time you went out. I know, because I was there and I ended up divorced.

Doubt it for sub 3. They just aren’t fast enough.

Probably for sub 2:20, highly likely for sub 2:10 and oh he!! yeah for sub 2:05.

If you ain’t doping you ain’t winning.

I broke 3 and I used to smoke weed, chain smoke cigarettes and drink like a fish for 10+ years. lol

After I broke 3 I quit running and am back to smoking pot again though :*(

Teddyb wrote:

I broke 3 and I used to smoke weed, chain smoke cigarettes and drink like a fish for 10+ years. lol

After I broke 3 I quit running and am back to smoking pot again though :*(

They say pot isn't addictive.

They say running is bad for your knees.

Looks like you've managed to avoid all of the pitfalls indicated in this thread. Good work.

Actually, I did sort of wake up 5 years later and realize I was being neglectful. Not neglectful in the traditional sense. I checked all the boxes. I was faithful, didn't gamble away the savings, coached little league, spent lots of time with the kids. But I was selfish with my emotions, and didn't prioritize time to engage with my wife on an emotional level. And a lot of that was because of marathon training.

Sorry to hear that man, what was the final straw for her and did you give her the breakup and go no contact? Similar story with me. I was running for 5 years before I met her on 120mpw and I always felt great. I had to go to 80-90 as the relationship gave me fatigue (could hear it in my voice after runs) but also sleeping with someone else affected my recovery. She totally accommodated my running and even joined me on some easy doubles. She slept in the spare bedroom so I could recover as I did not even have energy to go out for the day. We ended up room mates lost the intimacy and she said I was not the same positive haopy person she fell in love with.

Sometimes I thought damn I could of been so fast by now in the 5K but I lost her and got 2 minutes slower and a 3 month injury.

Oh yeah that is when it all went downhill I let my injury make me unhappy. When I go for a run now it feels empty like why am I doing this and I want our old relationship back with this woman who absoultely adored and admired me.

Well running saved me from my first breakup so I hope it will save me from this one too.