Are 95% of Sub 3 Marathoners Addicts?

Jim Rat wrote:

Signs of addiction according to the Mayo Clinic:

Always wanting more

Constantly needing more

Continuing despite negative outcomes

Inability to follow rules you have set

Not being able to stop

Obsessing

Replacing relationships

Secrecy

How many Sub 3 Marathoners can't say yes to at least 3 items on the list?

I don't know about Sub 3 but for sub elites and better, I'd say we definitely show tendencies towards most of those. I'm not sure about replacing relationships or secrecy items. I don't think those apply except for the drug cheat group.

But I think all good athletes would have at least struggles about following rules set and not being able to stop. Overtraining is a huge issue and maybe the biggest benefit of a coach.

The continuing despite negative outcomes is an interesting one to apply because everyone has very depressing periods of running sandwiching the best ones. I would say that is more of a perseverance aspect than how they define addiction because I would say those negative outcomes don't have negative impact on your life as a whole. They are just the ups and downs that are part of everyone's life.

I will say for me there definitely is a fear of stopping which you can classify as you want. But for me it's driven by two factors. The first is running competitively has been my lifestyle so long I'm not sure what I would do if I stopped doing it, or doing it for a hobby. The second is a concern that once you stop then you can never go back like it was. When I was in my early and mid 20's I feel like if I could walk away and come back to the sport if I wanted. In my 30's not so easy. I feel like the pain of getting back into at this point in life would be too much and once I make the decision to hang them up there is no going back to anywhere the same level again if I change my mind/

Jim Rat wrote:

Signs of addiction according to the Mayo Clinic:

Always wanting more

Constantly needing more

Continuing despite negative outcomes

Inability to follow rules you have set

Not being able to stop

Obsessing

Replacing relationships

Secrecy

How many Sub 3 Marathoners can't say yes to at least 3 items on the list?

I don't think that there is anything special about "Sub-3" about this. I would say that anyone who is improving actually has a reasonable ability to follow rules they have set.

The secrecy one is absolutely wrong. I guess that a "Sub-3" marathoner is someone in the 2:55-3:00 range. That's probably the loudest and most vocal group that you hear. Anyone from 2:55 up talks about "their marathon" way too much. It's the people under that that tend to understand that the rest of the world only wants to hear about their hobby as much as they want to hear about Karen's crafting.

I went for sub 3 because it takes a certain level of persistence for non-gifted athletes to achieve. Dedication vs addictive traits can be blurry.

Jim Rat wrote:

I went for sub 3 because it takes a certain level of persistence for non-gifted athletes to achieve. Dedication vs addictive traits can be blurry.

Or they are the same. People just say additive when they are referring to something in a negative manner. Sub-3 is a good result that takes a lot of time running to achieve.

If you (the general 'you') ever had the goal of a ~3:00 hour marathon, then I guarantee that you talked about running more than the people around you wanted to hear about it. If you kept running for a few years, then you learned that no one else wants to hear about it and you don't talk about it very much anymore.

Davis45 wrote:

Jim Rat wrote:

I went for sub 3 because it takes a certain level of persistence for non-gifted athletes to achieve. Dedication vs addictive traits can be blurry.

Or they are the same. People just say additive when they are referring to something in a negative manner. Sub-3 is a good result that takes a lot of time running to achieve.

If you (the general 'you') ever had the goal of a ~3:00 hour marathon, then I guarantee that you talked about running more than the people around you wanted to hear about it. If you kept running for a few years, then you learned that no one else wants to hear about it and you don't talk about it very much anymore.

what you are saying is true. not sure what frequency someone speaks of something has to do with this thread but I agree with what you are saying.

Jim Rat wrote:

what you are saying is true. not sure what frequency someone speaks of something has to do with this thread but I agree with what you are saying.

It was a little tangent to the original post, but it also distinguishes dedication from addiction. Since addiction is viewed negatively, secrecy (one of the traits on the list), is used to hide addiction. Although some of the traits are the same, dedication is viewed positively, so secrecy is not a trait of dedication.

Secrecy?

Ha! Marathoners love talking about their running

Theodore Rex wrote:

Secrecy?

Ha! Marathoners love talking about their running

Yes. We have been over that.

When I was in 2:4X shape, I would probably run a total of 8-9 hours a week during max mileage. No doubles. All morning runs before anyone else in my family was awake. Didn't really do much else. No weights, little stretching, no drills, no ice baths, no diets. Just ran. Made up my own schedule. Kept up with work and family just fine.

I did know some runners who were more obsessive about it. They kept track of their heart rate, made spreadsheets of their workouts and race results and were always spending lots of time doing all the little extras. But it was a passion, not an addiction. Most everyone maxed out their times and then gradually faded away and moved on to other things. It was fun to get to run more to the front of the pack than most. That's all.

Sub 3, for most males under ~45 at least, isn't an especially difficult task requiring excessive or obsessive training.

Seems a bigger deal to those who haven't notched it than those who have.

Primo Numero Uno wrote:

The second is a concern that once you stop then you can never go back like it was. When I was in my early and mid 20's I feel like if I could walk away and come back to the sport if I wanted. In my 30's not so easy. I feel like the pain of getting back into at this point in life would be too much and once I make the decision to hang them up there is no going back to anywhere the same level again if I change my mind/

Exactly--part of the reason I don't stop is that I'm sure that if I do, I'll never come back, and I'm not sure I'm ready for that.

I'd be showered by the time a 3-hour marathoner finishes, and I don't really relate to any of these.

I run a lot of miles, but the miles aren't my fix. They're a planned part of a training regime that's supposed to produce a particular result. If I'm not in serious training, and I'm running just how I feel, my mileage drops considerably.

I assume this means that running is doing bad things to your life or something. Of course I continue running after I have a bad race, but I have more good races than bad, and mostly I'd say running has dramatically improved my life.

Nope.

I got out of competitive running for a number of years. I've had no trouble resting when injured or at the end of a season.

Maybe, but it's cyclical. If I have a big race coming up and I've been training for months, it becomes a major focus. When it's over, running returns to occupying only a small amount of my attention each day..

I've made tons of friends through running. It's largely a social activity for me, and I doubt I'd do it if it weren't.

Lol. Nothing secret about it, though I do try not to talk about it too much with non-runners, for their sakes.

Ernest wrote:

Sub 3, for most males under ~45 at least, isn't an especially difficult task requiring excessive or obsessive training.

Seems a bigger deal to those who haven't notched it than those who have.

I think that depends on your job. I was working 50+ hours a week and on my feet a lot. I felt like I was burning the candle at both ends running 45 miles a week. I would have run myself into the ground trying to break 3 hours.

Always wanting more

- probably yes, when my mind drifts away I often find it thinking how to squeeze in more mileage this week

Constantly needing more

- not sure at all

Continuing despite negative outcomes

- running wise, I'm yet to reach that point where it would be clear I wouldn't improve anymore. In other areas of life I don't see much negative outcomes. I mean maybe I could have a better career if I used more of my time to develop my job-related skills, but I know wouldn't have done that. Would just drink beer and play video games.

Inability to follow rules you have set

- I'm able to resist the urge to run when injured or to run more when tapering.

Not being able to stop

- I can't even think of it. I've also heard that abruptly quitting running is bad for your health

Obsessing

- yes

Replacing relationships

– I didn't have much of those anyway. But yeah I'd rather use my vacation to travel to a race than to class reunion. Why do people in their right minds go to class reunions anyway?

Secrecy

– on one hand, just as every runner out there, if provoked I would talk about my running experiences for hours on end. Every morning I'm waiting for my wife to wake up to tell her how my training went and it upsets me when i understand she's not really listening. On other hand, I don't share much of my 'inner' understanding of my training with anyone. Before working from home, when I ran doubles from the office, I tried to avoid meeting any colleagues. My wife didn't even know I had shoes and shorts at the office locker. So yes.

Yes it's an addiction not unlike drugs or gambling. It's quite clear. But it doesn't kill me or ruin my health or make me homeless. Just a high-priority hobby. Marathoning is not unique. My brother's girlfriend is the same way about dancing, for example. And don't even get me started on birdwatchers doing their "big year".

nonary ant wrote:

... And don't even get me started on birdwatchers doing their "big year".

Wait, what? Tell us more.

3:18 guy wrote:

Ernest wrote:

Sub 3, for most males under ~45 at least, isn't an especially difficult task requiring excessive or obsessive training.

Seems a bigger deal to those who haven't notched it than those who have.

I think that depends on your job. I was working 50+ hours a week and on my feet a lot. I felt like I was burning the candle at both ends running 45 miles a week. I would have run myself into the ground trying to break 3 hours.

A tiny sliver of the population trains and runs enough marathons, including former high school and college runners, to actually learn the sport well enough to run sub three. The are several historic threads where fast runners for 10k and shorter discuss how difficult a road they travelled to go under three or how they never got there at all.

The finishing times in a typical marathon are above 3 hours for about 98% of the field.

newredsun wrote:

3:18 guy wrote:

I think that depends on your job. I was working 50+ hours a week and on my feet a lot. I felt like I was burning the candle at both ends running 45 miles a week. I would have run myself into the ground trying to break 3 hours.

A tiny sliver of the population trains and runs enough marathons, including former high school and college runners, to actually learn the sport well enough to run sub three. The are several historic threads where fast runners for 10k and shorter discuss how difficult a road they travelled to go under three or how they never got there at all.

The finishing times in a typical marathon are above 3 hours for about 98% of the field.

Remove the olds, women, and hobbyjoggers, and 3:00 is a pretty average finishing time.

Just Another wrote:

nonary ant wrote:

... And don't even get me started on birdwatchers doing their "big year".

Wait, what? Tell us more.

see

not a bad film....

newredsun wrote:

A tiny sliver of the population trains and runs enough marathons, including former high school and college runners, to actually learn the sport well enough to run sub three. The are several historic threads where fast runners for 10k and shorter discuss how difficult a road they travelled to go under three or how they never got there at all.

The finishing times in a typical marathon are above 3 hours for about 98% of the field.

Is that true? I've never not gone sub 3, outside of a single DNF, and I'm not exactly fast--I've never gone sub-17 in the 5K. But it's also possible that my cycling background makes me better suited to long efforts than someone with a background in shorter races.