Extinction of the NCAA?

DanM wrote:

Reading this story, I am astounded by the fact that redshirting is a common practice in a college track and field (and that it even exists).

https://www.registerguard.com/sports/20200716/dozen-uo-track-and-field-athletes-are-moving-on

Redshirting shouldn't exist. There should be a 4 year term limit and that is it.

On the face of it I think you are probably correct. Short term, if the NCAA were to disappear then distance running and nearly all minor sports would suffer.

Of course the NCAA is ruining distance running and minor sports anyway mostly because they don't understand the sport and don't care about it.

What should happen with the NCAA, which of course won't happen, is all of the money they make should be shared equally with each institution. TV revenue for NCAA football and basketball events should be distributed to all institutions. That would be the way insure all sports would thrive... but there is no way they are interested in doing that.

It will certainly be interesting to see what will happen to the NCAA, universities, and college athletics if there is no football this year. We will see some major changes but none of it will be good for distance running.

And, my take is that a club system for running will further erode the top end of distance running in the US. It's already hard enough... removing the existing system will result in fewer athletes participating and clearly that will impact long term development in the sport.

"Of course the NCAA is ruining distance running and minor sports anyway mostly because they don't understand the sport and don't care about it."

Can you give an example of how the NCAA is ruining distance running?

Zero year limit for you, boy

SDSU Aztec wrote:

"Of course the NCAA is ruining distance running and minor sports anyway mostly because they don't understand the sport and don't care about it."

Can you give an example of how the NCAA is ruining distance running?

It's the only D1 sport that doesn't have it's own scholarships. Clearly this is a disadvantage for XC/distance running.

I could list others but you have noticed that XC is one of the first sports dropped by ADs , right? That is the direct result of the NCAA not caring about distance running.

I know you ran for SDSU back in the day but things have change multiple times since then... it was hard back then but it's even more difficult now. ...St. John or Hunsacker would never attend SDSU now because it wouldn't make sense for them to.... the NCAA has helped create the haves and the have nots. Obviously the above paragraph is just my opinion.

I still don't follow. XC doesn't need its own scholarships as all distance runners also compete in track.

SDSU no longer has either mens XC or Track so I'm not sure why you use that as an example. Are you saying that Stanford and Oregon are allowed to give more distance running scholarships than other schools?

Training with Hunsaker helped me realize I didn't have enough talent to be as good I wanted to be.

"The sheer volume of non-revenue program cuts illustrate a concerning trend. Under financial constraints, schools are more likely to eliminate smaller sports than to trim gluttonous football budgets."

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/18/will-college-football-happen-what-a-lost-season-means-for-ncaa-economy.html

XC not having it's own scholarships creates additional inequities which don't exist for other sports. Water polo is not required to use swimming scholarships. That is a distinct disadvantage for distance running. It creates a situation where an AD or a track coach has to chose between track and XC. This makes no sense... track and XC are related but far from being the same sport. In the long run it creates fewer opportunities for distance running. The NCAA could resolve this situation by designating a certain number of scholarships to XC ... the same as it does for every other D1 sport with a NC.

I used SDSU because that's your school. I should have said if SDSU still had a men's track or XC program but I figured you'd understand what I meant... sorry. My point was Bill or Brian would now not come to SDSU because somewhere else would make much more sense.

Interesting to hear that training with Brian helped you realize you didn't have talent to be as good as you wanted. For me training with those better than me (more talent) helped me to become a better runner... eventually running faster than many of those I thought I didn't have the talent to beat.

Some of you just seem to understand that if you assign scholarships to XC, many schools would immediately cut it. Only the truly wealthy schools would keep it because the others would be even more embarrassed than they are today. Even the less wealthy schools such as NAU would wither away after a few years if schools such as Stanford and Oregon were allowed to have 5 scholarships for XC and NAU could only do the same.

Just like all of the other D1 sports (minor or otherwise) who have an equal amount of stipulated scholarships... they all disappear except for the schools with money?

I don't subscribe to your theory but you could be correct because we are both offering our opinions.

No debate that the NAU's of the world like the current set up... so does USC (for the opposite reason)...it works to their advantage so why would they want to change?

You're saying that if SDSU still had men's XC and T&F and Bill and Brian were now coming out of HS, it couldn't give them scholarships?

Training with Brian was a bridge too far. I pushed myself way too hard in intervals and even though I was a strong runner and could keep up with him on our over distance days, I was probably running at least 30 seconds a mile too fast,

Any runner worth his salt can push himself hard enough to maximize his ability. Intervals shouldn't be at 100% effort and training with someone faster can result in too hard an effort.

With LA/SF open source Linux internet, social media, crypto contract platforms, NCAA isn;t need anymore. NCAA did a good job for hundreds of years and that should be recognized. But now we have tech that we can use to start pro sports teams and stage games, meets, and races. We can manage from home, virtually, and feed funds to players instead of Corporate Jets and Stanford Biz School grads.

devteam.space/blog/5-best-smart-contract-platforms/

Male sports with funding.

0 male boxing teams-discontinued

8 rifle teams

16 gymnastic teams

60 hockey teams

87 bowling teams

109 wrestling teams

143 swimming teams

205 soccer teams

Sport without individual funding.

307 male cross country teams.

Classic bullshit line from an AD who does not want to hear dissenting opinions:

"Did you consult with the coaches or players on the decision to cut the sports? If not, why not?"

HS: "No, you can’t do that procedurally. I know it sounds like the right thing to do, but, then, what happens is all the response we got just moves up a month, and you start getting people who lobby at that point. If you look across the country — we’re not the first — we’re not the tenth school to announce cuts in sports. No school will run a procedure where they will go and vet it to coaches and players. We vetted it privately to the athletics advisory board, to the president’s senior leadership team, to my senior leadership team, but we knew the decision wasn’t going to be welcomed. Anyone in athletic administration would say, if you did it early, in terms of letting coaches know, it just exacerbates the whole process. It seems kinder to do it the other way. It just isn’t doable."

https://www.thedartmouth.com/article/2020/07/q-a-with-ad-harry-sheehy-on-the-elimination-of-five-sports-and-cancellation-of-fall-athletics

Did we start with 307 boxing teams, rifle teams, gymnastic teams, hockey teams... etc.?

Correlation vs Causation

SDSU Aztec wrote:

[

You're saying that if SDSU still had men's XC and T&F and Bill and Brian were now coming out of HS, it couldn't give them scholarships?

Training with Brian was a bridge too far. I pushed myself way too hard in intervals and even though I was a strong runner and could keep up with him on our over distance days, I was probably running at least 30 seconds a mile too fast,

Any runner worth his salt can push himself hard enough to maximize his ability. Intervals shouldn't be at 100% effort and training with someone faster can result in too hard an effort.

Yes. Given the current environment that would be my guess but of course it is just an opinion. Back then SDSU cost about $300 per semester and you could rent a house near SDSU for $500/month. Different world today.

As for the training comment, yes, of course one can over train. I can't disagree there but that wasn't your original comment about training with Hunsacker. It just shows how individualized correct training should be for best results, what works for some doesn't work for others.

Again, this is all just an opinion.

No. Cross country is one of the largest sports because there are no scholarships. Give it dedicated scholarships and there will be only 100 teams. You obviously don't know many D1 ADs.

I only brought this up because Aztec asked why i thought the NCAA was ruining distance running and other minor sports which your information seems to support.

In any case this will be my last comment about it because this debate is pointless for both sides.

People like the status quo. They fight change especially when it is in their best interests to do so. The current set up is not equitable. I believe more funding for the sport is better than less. You clearly disagree. Both are just opinions.

And you obviously don't know me well enough to make any judgements about who I do or don't know.