(Road Racing and) Time Trialing and Training Thread - Week Ending 7/5/20

thebulljames wrote:

This is a question for the group that I am curious about as a lot of folks are now in humid conditions and the post on the main page made me think about it, too.

How do y'all adjust your training when you are in conditions with dreadful temps and dew points pretty much all of the time? Are there certain types of workouts you avoid? Certain workouts you do more of or less of?

Split continuous thresholds into cruise 1ks or Miles with 1:00-2:00 jog between. Ditch the track and go for shaded bikepath if possible. Sub track repeats for ~equal time. Start more conservative earlier in the workout and be okay with cutting the workout early if things are taking a turn for a worse.

forcerunner wrote:

thebulljames wrote:

This is a question for the group that I am curious about as a lot of folks are now in humid conditions and the post on the main page made me think about it, too.

How do y'all adjust your training when you are in conditions with dreadful temps and dew points pretty much all of the time? Are there certain types of workouts you avoid? Certain workouts you do more of or less of?

Split continuous thresholds into cruise 1ks or Miles with 1:00-2:00 jog between. Ditch the track and go for shaded bikepath if possible. Sub track repeats for ~equal time. Start more conservative earlier in the workout and be okay with cutting the workout early if things are taking a turn for a worse.

Agreed with this.

I also try to shift workouts to the morning... even though I HATE hard efforts in the AM. I also mentally prepare myself to be off on my splits just a bit and if it happens, I'm ok with that. Today I went out at 6am to the track, it was 73/68 so pretty humid. Wanted to do 800s cut down 2 seconds each rep, starting at 2:33... cut down the first few, but couldn't do it the whole way. Still felt the effort, got the work in, and was happy with it.

I really think adjusting expectations, knowing your conditions are uncontrollable, and not just pushing through it for the heck of it helps. I also search out shade when I can. My long run usually takes place on a rail trail that I can go 8 out and 8 back making a nice 16. On hot days, there is a 3 mile section that is shaded, and I'll just go back and forth on that part instead of the full 8, stop for water hear and there. Just slight adjustments.

I have done less mileage in the summer. This summer I have ound rep work isnt bad in the heat ... longer stuff breaks me down , esp now as im a lot heftier. This summer Will spend a lot of time on single track.. Q days will be like Hard uphills, easy downhills.. cruise the flats .. no watch on. More hills on the road as well, like 4 miles of LT hills by feel. If start to redline will stop and walk a bit or splash in the creek. Def makes it more fun than hammering Tempos on the road.

I guess the one plus for the track is the ability to get a bit of water easily, which is a huge value add when weather is tough.

To elaborate - I guess in normal years marathon training for fall races begins to pick up around now which makes that type of work especially challenging - the long sustained tempos, etc.

With no marathons on the horizon - maybe the summer is a great time to maintain aerobic fitness and push some faster stuff.

It does make me wonder about the best way to build a marathon base in normal times when the conditions are awful.

thebulljames wrote:

This is a question for the group that I am curious about as a lot of folks are now in humid conditions and the post on the main page made me think about it, too.

How do y'all adjust your training when you are in conditions with dreadful temps and dew points pretty much all of the time? Are there certain types of workouts you avoid? Certain workouts you do more of or less of?

You can use one of the many heat index or dew point charts or calculators out there. With some combination of the temp, humidity, and dew point you can get a rough idea of how to adjust. That is how I have been trying to do it. Learning the hard way I need to adjust more and sooner haha

thebulljames wrote:

This is a question for the group that I am curious about as a lot of folks are now in humid conditions and the post on the main page made me think about it, too.

How do y'all adjust your training when you are in conditions with dreadful temps and dew points pretty much all of the time? Are there certain types of workouts you avoid? Certain workouts you do more of or less of?

I just follow my training plan as per usual.

Paces might drop slightly, but the effort level is always there.

Stone – Is the Wednesday session based on anything? Or is it more something you created for a higher aerobic stimulus?

HHW – Glad to see you’re on the mend. Muscle stuff just absolutely sucks. What’s your new job? My bad if you already said in a previous thread. I was spotty about checking last weeks.

Coach – Consistency is key. That’s easily my biggest struggle. If I miss a run for some reason, I struggle so much to keep on with the rest of the week since I’m tempted to just say screw it. Luckily, I’ve been doing better since adopting the Australian complex training.

Smoove – Nice. How are you doing otherwise?

RRR – Man, we had the same TT feeling wise. Although you did it significantly faster than I did. But, some days are like that. I’m sure you’ll knock it out of the park next time round.

Pewow – Humidity is the absolute worst. Give me dry heat any day of the week over high humidity. That’s an interesting hill circuit. Did you get that from somewhere or did you make it up on your own?

Image – Solid week. What are you targeting for the half?

Npurdy – Oof. That’s definitely some harsh humidity. So was Wednesday more like a steady state/marathon pace effort?

GNR1 – Solid week. Got any TTs on the horizon? You’ve been killing the TT game so far.

OR – Getting back into it! I see some of the classic flyers in there.

Rucker – I don’t have a calf problem, but I have a nagging case of shin splints and I have to do the same. Doing ~100 minute long runs absolutely sucks, but sub 60 minutes isn’t terrible.

Seppo – That’s an awesome week. Lots of miles, but also lots of quality. Do you have any particular focus in terms of distance right now?

Force – That’s always a nice surprise. Similar to finding out something you wanted to buy was on sale so you’re actually getting a deal.

Darkwave – Nice week, Dark. Did you ditch the treadmill or just making more effort to get outside? I’m liking the variety in the paces though. I’m terrible about that.

Number – Solid 5 miler and return to fitness. It is so hard to slowly build back.

BHViking – They should. I thought there are basically double gains between 1:45 and 2:00, with aerobic or capillary development or whatever plateauing not long after 2:00.

Cocoon – Aggravating something while doing something else is the worst. It’s like a sneak attack or something. Hopefully you can get back to the usual routine this week.

Sub 6 – First, nice mile TT. A solo of 4:47 is nothing to sneeze at. Second, getting stuck behind a crash is the worst. You can’t move, yet you can’t really do anything like read or play on your phone. Worst of both worlds.

Cbenson4 – That’s a good week overall. Hopefully your family issues resolve themselves soon. That’s never fun

Lanc – I read your race report. It was epic. And we all know you’re going to bust out the 5k. Maybe just don’t do it as a double this week! You’ll be more than ready once races return.

Rhodium – Nice work on the TT! How you guys are busting out these long TTs is amazing to me. Just doing a 5k solo makes me want to die.

Thoughts – Probably a wise choice on skipping the TT. If you aren’t really feeling a TT, they are just going to suck. At least that’s how it is for me.

Coffee – The halfway point in a 5k does seem to be the hard part. I can only assume because you’ve been blasting along for ~10 minutes and those types of efforts aren’t really in training.

I have been consulting those charts, too and even made a little excel widget to calculate paces for me.

The problem I think with those is on long, continuous efforts in that once you're over the edge, you're over the edge.

Anything that is even moderate is causing heart rate to drift pretty rapidly in the heat, even easy running does. I think it those charts are helpful, but something like 6-8 miles at marathon pace will get difficult later on even if run significantly slower and probably drifts in LT and faster effort even with pace slowing,

JamesTheAmateur wrote:

Npurdy – Oof. That’s definitely some harsh humidity. So was Wednesday more like a steady state/marathon pace effort?

Coach defines it as "easy tempo". Putting those numbers into the pace calculator he uses is roughly MP + 15-25s. Effort was much higher that day. Felt better for the hillier LR 3 days later, even had the last 4-5mi. faster than half of that "easy tempo". haha.

Where is Too Hot when we need him.

Last week

PRs: 14:55, 24:29, 30:59, 1:07:10, 2:23:15

Goals: 14:35 5km, and 30:30 10km

Monday Easy 6.2 Miles 7:27 Pace

Tuesday AM. 4x 6 min Steady ( 5:35 pace) with 30 sec rest

PM. 5 x 1km 3:01, 3:03, 2:48, 3:06, 3:06 90 sec rest

Wednesday 8 miles Easy 7:30 pace

Thursday 10.5 Hilly course Normal run 7:10 pace. ( 75 minutes)

Friday AM: 30 min easy 7:20 pace. PM 20 min easy, 30 min Tempo 5:12 Pace. 15 min cool

Saturday 60 Min Easy 7:20 pace in the Forest

Sunday 18.6 LONG Run Moderate @ 6:25 pace per mile

Mileage was about 80 Miles this week. The heat has been too much in Midwest this week. Looking forward for another week.

Hope everyone is having a great week and doing their best.

Coach Jeff ROC wrote:

Stone/Mrs. Stone: I understand that the training is done without referencing the GPS, but do you guys go back and look at the pacing etc in post-workout discussions? Or is it just all by feel?

BHViking: Are you fueling on those long runs?

Rhodium: Well done! Regarding HR training: I've trained in a lot of different ways. In base-building phase, I like the ease of using the HR with alarms to keep me in the zone that I'm aiming for. Once I'm into a specific race training cycle, I'll wear the HRM for data, but I tend to focus more on pace and how I subjectively feel at various paces. Right now I'm doing the training "plan" outlined in the famous "Hadd thread," squeezing out my toothpaste.

Hey Coach!

The only fueling I've been doing on the long runs is about 30 minutes prior to starting a piece of toast with hot honey on it. I don't bring anything on the run with me at all and do not stop. I do not like carrying water and it seems pointless to bring gels since I can't wash them down. I've done a 20 mile run on 3 straight weekends now so I think I'm going to skip the long run entirely this week or do a very short "long run". I'm camping this weekend anyway and would prefer not to blow too much time running off my hangover.

As Coach Stone talked about, I'm also ignoring my watch entirely and going by feel. No number chasing just feels so much more freeing and I just find myself hitting some really good rhythms almost accidentally.

Hadd training is certainly interesting. It is much, much harder than it looks on the surface. Over 10 hours of running a week with at least two, sometimes three 60+ minute threshold runs was really, really tough.

JamesTheAmateur wrote:

BHViking – They should. I thought there are basically double gains between 1:45 and 2:00, with aerobic or capillary development or whatever plateauing not long after 2:00.

That's interesting. If that's the case, then I'm probably running close to the optimal long run length in the last 3 weeks for fitness gains (2:16, 2:29, 2:17). In each case, it just felt like another nice run with the "workout" portion at the end, even though I wasn't really trying to run faster. So maybe this isn't as big of a weakness as I thought? Maybe what I'm experiencing is actually getting an appropriate workout out of it (in other words, that's what it's supposed to feel like)?

thebulljames wrote:

This is a question for the group that I am curious about as a lot of folks are now in humid conditions and the post on the main page made me think about it, too.

How do y'all adjust your training when you are in conditions with dreadful temps and dew points pretty much all of the time? Are there certain types of workouts you avoid? Certain workouts you do more of or less of?

I try to run at the coolest feasible time of day, and I plan routes that avoid direct sunlight. Also, I use summertime as "simmer" time, as base-building time; with no races on the horizon, I keep most everything aerobic. I accept that my pace at any given HR is going to be as slow as... as a lazy summer day.

I make a handful of adjustments, some of which may not be feasible depending on what you're training for.

I actually prefer the track over the roads. As you noted, access to water is huge. I will also sometimes bring a cooler with water and ice and keep towels in there to get quick cool downs between intervals.

I try to make the summer my speed session Part of the cycle when I can. That means more 200s/400s hard with long rest than 5k paced mile repeats.

I also use cruise intervals instead of continuous tempo runs.

I do loops for long runs and stopped every 5-7 miles to rehydrate, take in salt, cool off, maybe even switch into clothes that won’t chase the tender regions.

I plan my other runs (and some long runs) around known water stops.

I affirmatively run easy days during the hotter part of the day from time to time so as to adapt to the heat a little better; although I acknowledge that this one is pseudoscience at best.

I work in product management. Made a switch of industry to biotech. It will be a steep learning curve to say the least.

Agree that there are some great weeks showing up here. Inspiring stuff.

Still plugging away over here with a generally cooperative left leg. Will post some comments tomorrow.

Smoove wrote:

I affirmatively run easy days during the hotter part of the day from time to time so as to adapt to the heat a little better; although I acknowledge that this one is pseudoscience at best.

I was a little concerned about this choice of yours. If you were planning to race in those conditions, I would support that decision in moderation. But if not, even if there are some proven physiological benefits, I think I remembering reading that the benefits fade at least as fast as the effects of altitude training do. I think you said something (maybe on Strava) about the mid-day run feeling enjoyable, and that's great. But if not, I wouldn't see any reason to force those conditions on yourself.

Makes the cold beers taste colder, though. There's that.