Actually, I don't expect a sudden decline at any age.
Actually, I don't expect a sudden decline at any age.
ShilohDoesntCare wrote:
Back to back bad years at Boston, one wasn't his fault of course but 2:18 is atrocious for Abdi. Yes 2:11 is great for the NYC course but he finished almost a minute behind Ward in that race. At his age people expect a sudden decline. You can't deny that Abdi wasn't on anyone's radar, it was the story of the trials because it came out of nowhere.
I can deny Abdi wasn't on anyone's radar. He was on mine.
And 2:18 isn't atrocious for Ward? And take a look at 82nd place:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_IAAF_World_Half_Marathon_ChampionshipsI meant 83rd.
No one cares about the shipper...molly is true AMERICAN and thats all i am rooting for.
runnerx2016 wrote:
No one cares about the shipper...molly is true AMERICAN and thats all i am rooting for.
Shipper? What's that mean?
Boo, Hiss! Hope you crash and burn at Fargo.
runnerx2016 wrote:
No one cares about the shipper...molly is true AMERICAN and thats all i am rooting for.
Never heard the phrase "shipper" before, runnerx2016. Want to enlighten me on what it means?
Kvothe wrote:
NBC coverage is bad. Any time you can watch on BBC or Eurosport, its much better.
I had no idea they were covering the US Olympic Trials.
Let's talk about race in American running for a sec.
US distance running is rife with racism. That's just a fact. Sorry if that makes you uncomfortable. But there are things that need to change.
Example 1 "The Africans"
Even the most well meaning runners today have been guilty of using "The Africans" to describe some of the best athletes in their sport all around the world. These athletes have names, countries of origin, and accomplishments. However, more often than not, they are just simply "The Africans". Adam Goucher did it in Running With the Buffaloes. So many white american runners do it. Surely Goucher has grown and changed, but many more need to do the same. Respect your competitors. Know their names, or at least the countries they are from.
Example 2: First Non-African, Fastest Non-African
Seriously? Talk about participation trophies! Who cares who the first "Non African" is! Why is that listed like a legitimate accomplishment? Are African born runners not real human competitors in the race? Seems like they are since they win all the medals... This isn't a standard. This isn't an accomplishment in the sport. It needs to stop being treated like one. Just recently, listening to Ryan Hall's podcast with Alan and Dathan, he listed "first non-african" as an "accomplishment" on Dathan's behalf. That was a month ago. Sorry Dathan, but when you race, you race other humans and if they go thre first it really doesnt' matter what you do.
Example 3: Meb and Boston and "American BORN!"
In 2014, Meb won the Boston marathon. It was a huge accomplishment since no American runner had won Boston since 1981 and Meb did so after the bombings. Flash forward to 2018 and Galen is running his first Boston marathon.
What were the headlines? "Rupp could be the FIRST AMERICAN WINNER SINCE 1981!!!" Nope. That is wrong. Meb won. But they erased him. So then they were corrected. So what do these papers do? Apologize? Say sorry we were wrong and willfully ignorant because we couldn't possibly imagine how a man of color named Meb could be American? Nope. Headlines now read "Rupp could be the FIRST AMERICAN BORN WINNER SINCE 1981!!!!!"
Seriously? Now I understand being a little more excited for someone who has never competed for another country. But Meb came to this country not as a former pro runner but as a ten year old child. He was escaping civil war. He settled in LA. He went to US High School. he went to UCLA and ran in the NCAA system. He won a silver medal in Athens. What does it matter where he was BORN?
Just like non-african is not a thing, neither is American 'born'. Those words are just used to other people, particularly people of color. The papers were so determined to separate Meb from his accomplishment of winning Boston. They were so determined not to include him under the umbrella of "American". In 2018.
Anyways Galen didn't win Boston.
Example 4: The Great White Hope
This might be an old one but I remember this on letsrun in my high school days. We were frustrated Americans weren't as competitive as they once were, but it wasn't great "American" hope. It was great WHITE hope.
So that's a no to Matt Centrowitz I guess. There goes the Olympic Gold....
Yea, anyways.
I like Molly Seidel much more than Aliphine. This does not mean that I hate Aliphine. Deal with it girl.
Chopsticks wrote:
I like Molly Seidel much more than Aliphine. This does not mean that I hate Aliphine. Deal with it girl.
And how is it that you "like Molly much more than Aliphine"? Are you friends with Molly? Neighbors? Went to the same H.S.? Or is it because you "know" Molly so much more than Aliphine? And therein lies the rub.
insertname wrote:
She is absolutely correct.
The coverage was incredibly dismissive of the black and foreign born athletes.
In the pre-race they talked about Rupp and Ward, no mention of Korrir. The guy with the second fastest time didn't get a mention. Similarly, they talked about Des, Sisson, and Molly (just to mention it was her debut), but no mention of the only runner with a World medal in Kipyego. This wasn't some heat of the moment snubbing, they had plenty of time to properly consider who to highlight and they made these choices.
Abdi got a 1 second mention for leading at the half mile, then there was no mention of a black athlete again until after the half. They say something along the lines of "After the big two of Rupp and Ward, it is hard to put a finger on a third guy".... again, the guy with the PR faster than Ward?
At one point Aliphine was referred to as "Bruce's teammate"; at another they say "the big names are up front" and start listing off the names of the people to her right and left and skipping her.
They managed to have a three minute advertisement for Nike's shoes before mentioning Korrir's name. They talked about the 16 year old before Aliphine or Kipyego. They had Bolton on to talk about the USA sprint team and talked about more black athletes in that context than they had about any of them in the actual race.
Rewatch the race with this in mind; it is borderline hilarious.
They did go back to Lagat and if I remember right, Meb was part of the crew or had a segment.
Your white privilege is showing. wrote:
She is right. White privilege was on full display. OP you’re clueless.
This is stupid. Stupid I’ve heard so many complaining that the media focuses on white runners instead of immigrants or saying it white privilege. No. If that was the case Meb would never have been celebrated and well known.
Also the coverage in most marathons non white athletes get the most attention
It stupid
runnerz wrote:
insertname wrote:
She is absolutely correct.
The coverage was incredibly dismissive of the black and foreign born athletes.
In the pre-race they talked about Rupp and Ward, no mention of Korrir. The guy with the second fastest time didn't get a mention. Similarly, they talked about Des, Sisson, and Molly (just to mention it was her debut), but no mention of the only runner with a World medal in Kipyego. This wasn't some heat of the moment snubbing, they had plenty of time to properly consider who to highlight and they made these choices.
Abdi got a 1 second mention for leading at the half mile, then there was no mention of a black athlete again until after the half. They say something along the lines of "After the big two of Rupp and Ward, it is hard to put a finger on a third guy".... again, the guy with the PR faster than Ward?
At one point Aliphine was referred to as "Bruce's teammate"; at another they say "the big names are up front" and start listing off the names of the people to her right and left and skipping her.
They managed to have a three minute advertisement for Nike's shoes before mentioning Korrir's name. They talked about the 16 year old before Aliphine or Kipyego. They had Bolton on to talk about the USA sprint team and talked about more black athletes in that context than they had about any of them in the actual race.
Rewatch the race with this in mind; it is borderline hilarious.
+1. Nice summary.
No. It’s not. It’s a gross mischaracterization of what happened. I guess the media never covered Meb.
colorunner123 wrote:
moot wrote:
Agreed they did not focus on her. I think it is more of a bias for homegrown talent over immigrants.
I am guilty of this bias. I do not list Lagat among my top Americans of all time because he came here after he was already a 3:26 guy. But I’ll root for Donovan Brazier all day long.
Really what do you expect? We set up Athletics and the Olympics as this “team” sport where you root for your country above all others, so yeah, I want my champions to be American from the day they were born (well...since they young at least, Lopez Lomong I root for).
I’m not denying racial bias exists, just that I think it’s more immigrant bias with this one.
There is a lot of truth in this. Runners like Lomong, Shadrack Kipchichir, Leonard Korir, Paul Chelimo, and Kirubel Erassa would get more love if they had been born in the US. By the way, these five men--all immigrants from Africa--were the top five 10,000 meter runners in the US last year. I think a lot of Americans--both black and white--see the US championships and quietly think to themselves, "Oh look. The Kenyans (sic) are winning again." Granted, most of us root for Chelimo and Lomong, but I doubt most LetsRun readers could identify Kipchichir or Erassa if we saw them walking down the street. I think distance running would be much more popular in the US if the top US runners were Americans from birth or at least from an early age.
This is objectively stupid. NBC did multiple stories about Lomong.
She claimed she wanted equal coverage for all the athletes. With 400 participants how do you accomplish that? It sounds like her sponsor put her up to this and is trying to coattail on recent events.
kmaclam wrote:
Chopsticks wrote:
I like Molly Seidel much more than Aliphine. This does not mean that I hate Aliphine. Deal with it girl.
And how is it that you "like Molly much more than Aliphine"? Are you friends with Molly? Neighbors? Went to the same H.S.? Or is it because you "know" Molly so much more than Aliphine? And therein lies the rub.
This is a good point and again goes back to the oft discussed question of whose story gets to be told. We all know NBC coverage sucks so much and it only gets worse when you're not a known name and then your name itself is not all-American sounding and maybe doesn't roll off the tongue like "Molly Seidel" to these clueless announcers who don't do any research. But those are all excuses.
What really makes the difference in coverage is that an East African will never get as much credit as a white person for running the same time or better. They won't talk about how tough Aliphine is or well suited to the cross-country style course because of the particulars of her buildup and training with NAZ Elite. If they see her in the lead, they won't show any surprise or excitement even though she's not supposed to be there. They just chock her up as another Kenyan with the right genetics and don't see her as her own person with a unique story.
If this were Aliphine's debut marathon, they wouldn't have mentioned it in the same "wow-zie" tone as they did for Molly. It would have sounded more removed and matter of fact, just like the way they mentioned it in passing when Ethiopian Worknesh Degefa won Boston in her debut.
It's like when you're Asian American, in America you never get credit for being genuinely smart. If you get good grades it's because you're a grind and your tiger parents make you study. If you work hard it's because that's the culture. None of it is due to you unless you are a freaking genius. Just like an East African will only get credit for running if they break a world record or become a GOAT. But every white person, average, sub-average, or above average, gets to be their own very special snowflake with a story to tell. They come from nowhere and made it all happen themselves.
I think Molly's story is great, coming back from an eating disorder and being NCAA cross country queen, proving the same chops on this course. But I wish Aliphine had gotten the same treatment. Both had past experience that made this result make a lot of sense. The only thing I know about her from the coverage after is that she crochets hats and has a lot of siblings. Nothing really about her running journey because they think her face and body as a Kenyan covers that.
ANTI-Semitism and Racism againist Jews, Blacks, Asians, Natives, Whites, etc. is part and partial of NBC and mainstream media. NBC ignores the 75 year long US Occupation crimes in Palestine and aggression in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, and Yemen.
cloudcover wrote:
kmaclam wrote:
And how is it that you "like Molly much more than Aliphine"? Are you friends with Molly? Neighbors? Went to the same H.S.? Or is it because you "know" Molly so much more than Aliphine? And therein lies the rub.
This is a good point and again goes back to the oft discussed question of whose story gets to be told. We all know NBC coverage sucks so much and it only gets worse when you're not a known name and then your name itself is not all-American sounding and maybe doesn't roll off the tongue like "Molly Seidel" to these clueless announcers who don't do any research. But those are all excuses.
What really makes the difference in coverage is that an East African will never get as much credit as a white person for running the same time or better. They won't talk about how tough Aliphine is or well suited to the cross-country style course because of the particulars of her buildup and training with NAZ Elite. If they see her in the lead, they won't show any surprise or excitement even though she's not supposed to be there. They just chock her up as another Kenyan with the right genetics and don't see her as her own person with a unique story.
If this were Aliphine's debut marathon, they wouldn't have mentioned it in the same "wow-zie" tone as they did for Molly. It would have sounded more removed and matter of fact, just like the way they mentioned it in passing when Ethiopian Worknesh Degefa won Boston in her debut.
It's like when you're Asian American, in America you never get credit for being genuinely smart. If you get good grades it's because you're a grind and your tiger parents make you study. If you work hard it's because that's the culture. None of it is due to you unless you are a freaking genius. Just like an East African will only get credit for running if they break a world record or become a GOAT. But every white person, average, sub-average, or above average, gets to be their own very special snowflake with a story to tell. They come from nowhere and made it all happen themselves.
I think Molly's story is great, coming back from an eating disorder and being NCAA cross country queen, proving the same chops on this course. But I wish Aliphine had gotten the same treatment. Both had past experience that made this result make a lot of sense. The only thing I know about her from the coverage after is that she crochets hats and has a lot of siblings. Nothing really about her running journey because they think her face and body as a Kenyan covers that.
+1