Don’t you understand? A young athlete must come FULLY developed with everything in his toolkit!
Same people who wrote off Brazier after a few tough USAs lol
Don’t you understand? A young athlete must come FULLY developed with everything in his toolkit!
Same people who wrote off Brazier after a few tough USAs lol
bluejay wrote:
"And he lacks stamina for 5k.
In a fast race his kick is gone like seen in Doha. "
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These statements didn´t age well!
This is entire thread did not age well
westsouthrunner wrote:
Coevett wrote:
El G didn't break 3:30 until 21 years 11 months. Jakob likely would have broken 3:29 last summer at 18 at Monaco if Tim hadn't slowed the race down.
El G improved by 1 or 2 seconds a year from his teens Somebody on another thread was claiming that because Jakob only improved by a second or so last year he has already peaked. Ignoring that in 2018, his PB was set at Momaco and his next fastest 1500m that year was 3:35 or something, whereas last year 3:30/3:31 was routine.
El G was part of a hot housing insanely intense elite GDR style training academy from 15, yet it took him nearly a decade with full throttle peds to get to 3:26.0
I understand where people are coming from saying El G was full throttle EPO and his records can never be beaten, but consider :
El G didn't have Monaco
El G didn't have carbon plated shoes.
El G wasn't as talented as Ryun, Coe, Ovett, Cram, who all would have ran 3;27 or better clean at Monaco and likely even back in the day with better pacing and better luck with injuries and health.
The question is - is Jakob as talented as Ryun, Coe, Ovett, and Cram? If yes, and his career up to now suggests he is, then if he has a good run of injury free years in his prime, he will probably run 3:24.
You think Jakob has as much talent as someone like Bernard Lagat then? Since EL G is less talented than your white guys? The only really really talented one out of them to me is Coe. Other than that the all time great african runners are clearly more talented.
+1
It was just a remarkable coincidence that all these most talented Africans ever all appeared right at the height of the EPO era, despite the population of Africa almost doubling since then.
Number 17 wrote:
westsouthrunner wrote:
You think Jakob has as much talent as someone like Bernard Lagat then? Since EL G is less talented than your white guys? The only really really talented one out of them to me is Coe. Other than that the all time great african runners are clearly more talented.
+1
It was just a remarkable coincidence that all these most talented Africans ever all appeared right at the height of the EPO era, despite the population of Africa almost doubling since then.
When you post under so many different handles, Coevett, it's getting difficult to follow you. So, please stick to your old Coevett handle, OK, Coevett?
CoeEvett and his El G. syndrome.
He marked you recognize...
Although I think that Aouita was the big man behind everything.
He is the one that turned the page of history.
African were not so dominant before Aouita.
We had Gammoudi, Keino, Filbert Bayi, Rono...
objectiveobserver wrote:
Starno wrote:
Abeneziel wrote:
gimme a break wrote:
And who are these 5 Ethiopians who could beat him in a 3k? I think anyone would acknowledge after yesterday’s run he could run 7:30 (equivalent conversion in a time trial and he’s arguably a better runner at 3k/5k than 1500m/2k) - let’s hear your list of names.
The same ethiopians that smoke him on a regular basis in the 5000m
Mukthar Edriss, the two time 5000 WC
Selemon Barega, vice 5 000 world champion and as young as Jakob
Yomif Kejelcha, vice 10000m world champion
Hagos Gebriwhet, who has beaten Ingebrigsten and run much faster
Telahun Bekele, who is faster than him
The field at 3 000/5000 is too strong for Ingebrigsten. He has a better chance at 1500 because the field is weaker currently.
He can also petition for creating a custom event like the 2 000m or the 2150m that would suit him better.
These guys aren't going to be much better.
Jakob will.
Why are you so sure? Jakob has been training just as hard from a younger age as those guys. I hope Barega, Kejelcha and Jakob have a great rivalry in the future, but Barega is so much faster right now and Kejelcha is so much more seasoned that Jakob has a lot of work to do if he wants to get on that level.
I do disagree with Gebriwhet being better. I think he's on the decline. We'll see. Edris is a weird runner too, more of a Farah type--fast and suited for championship races. Telahun is more of a 5/10K guy, not a 3K guy. I think I'd take Jakob in a 3K vs. Bekele, but Bekele at 5K and up
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I think that Jakob will break all current WR´s from 1500m to 10000m provided he continues his well balanced, wellproven mainly aerobic training. And barring severe illness or injury.
He is not going to peak soon. On the contrary he will continue to put new layers on his aerobic foundation for many more years. Which will result in improved times on the the above track distances for at least 4-5 more years.
I think that his 2000m last week indicates that he is already one level up from last year.
I predict that he this year can go 2-3 seconds faster in the 1500m, well under 7:30 in the 3000m and under 12:50 in the 5000m if he joins some fast races under good conditions, including fast and stable pacemaking.
Not long ago many posters agreed that Jakob couldn´t match the best East African (the world´s best) in the 5000m and up.
The above quotes are some examples on that dicussion. (the quotes are from page 8 in the thread).
There are also threads where Jakob is considered inferior to Kipruto, Jacob (Kiplimo) and recently most people considered Jakob inferior to Cheptegei in the WC 5000m.
I suppose that most now agree that Jakob at least is at the same level as the toprunners from East Africa?
I will below match Jakob against the mentioned East African top runners:
1. Edris.
He hasn´t run a good race since he won the 5000m in Doha 2019. He was a non factor in the DL florens/ Rome 5000m last year and a non factor in this WC 5000m. He seems to be in the autumn of his career.
He is far from Jakob´s level.
2. Telahun Haile Bekele
His best race was the DL Rome 5000m in 2019 where he ran his PB 12:52.98. He was chosen this year for the WC 5000m after Berihu Aregawi´s lacklustre performance in the 10,000m but (narrowly) missed the final.
He is far from Jakob´s level.
3. Hagos Gebhriwet
He hasn´t competed since the DL Florens/ Rome 5000m last year where he was runner up after Jakob.
Retired?
4. Kejelcha
He has better times in the 3000m and 5000m than Jakob but has never beaten him in competition.
Result wise as the same level. More about that below!
5. Barega
Hasn´t run a very fast 5000m since his sensational 12:43 PB in DL Brüssel in 2019 at age 18.
But he ran an indoor 3000m in 7:26 last year in Lievin.
Result wise same level as Jakob. See below.
6. Belahu Aregawi
He has run the 3000m in 7:26.20 indoor and the 5000m solo in 12:50 (in DL Eugene) this year.
Result wise same level as Jakob.
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7. Rhonex Kipruto
Has been mentioned as superior to Jakob on the 5000m. Rhonex, however, doesn´t run the 5000m any more. He has been running 10,000m, 10km and HM this year but not on the same high level as before.
Far below Jakob in the 5000m.
8. Nicholas Kipkorir (before: Kimeli)
He has run 12:46 in the 5000m this year and 7:31 in the 3000m last year. But he has never beaten Jakob.
Result wise same level as Jakob.
9. Jacob Krop
Ran 12:46 high in the 5000m this year and 7:30 last year in the 3000m. Hasn´t beaten Jakob in an important race (but in the semis at WC).
Result wise same level as JI.
10. Jacob Kiplimo
Ran 12:48 in the 5000m and 7:26 in the 3000m. Has beaten Jakob once.
Result wise same level as JI
11.Josua Cheptegei
World records in the 5000m (12:35) and the 10,000m in 2020. But haven´t come close since. Hasn´t beaten Jakob.
Result wise higher level than Jakob.
12. Oscar Chelimo
Ran 13:06 in the 5000m and 7:43 in the 3000m last year.
Far below Jakob´s level.
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So the guys in contention are Kejelcha, Barega, Aregawi, Nicholas Kipkorir, Jacob Krop, Jacob Kiplimo and Cheptegei.
Are any of them better than Jakob? CLEARLY NOT AT THE MOMENT!
Apart from Aregawi and Kiplimo Jakob beat all them EASILY in the WC 5000m final.
Jacob Kiplimo probably decided himself not to run the 5000m but there is no reason to think he could have challenged Jakob if he had joined the event.
Aregawi was relegated due to his poor performance in the 10000m so it isn´t very likely that he would have been doing better in the 5000m.
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Is there any reason to believe that any of these contenders have superior endurance so they would able to gap Jakob in a time trial. No, I don´t think so.
I think most SERIOUS observers on these pages agree that Jakob can go sub 12:45 in an optimum race (with good pacemaking and good weather conditions) and NONE of the contenders have done that for years if ever.
So the notion that the WC 5000m final was played into the hands of Jakob is possibly wrong. He would also have won in a fast race (like DL Florens 2021).
What are the prospects for the future? Not good for Jakob´s competitors! I will write about that in another thread.
objectiveobserver wrote:
I think most SERIOUS observers on these pages agree that Jakob can go sub 12:45 in an optimum race (with good pacemaking and good weather conditions) and NONE of the contenders have done that for years if ever.
I agree with the first part, but
a) Cheptegei ran 12:35 less than two years ago;
b) only 5 athletes have ever actually run under 12:45.
I postulate that some of the other current stars, not just Jakob, could also run under 12:45 under ideal conditions. Krop's 12:46 was just last month.
Another point to consider: would Jakob also have won if Krop and Cheptegei would have stayed behind him in lane 1 for 4400 m? Maybe, I am not sure.
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