Old Timers. How does 2020 compare to the 60s?

Runner10287 wrote:

coach wrote:

I'm glad you're getting outside. Where I live playgrounds are locked up, basketball rims were removed in mid March. There are no youth sports leagues. A group of kids can't even go to an asphalt parking lot and play together. NYC has closed its beaches, the areas around NYC only allow locals on the beaches and at half capacity. There's nothing for young people to do, no where to go.

This is unique.

Weird. I see a lot of people outside when I check out my newsfeeds.

My family is outside as often as possible, but we still cant sit in local playgrounds, play pick up soccer games in parks or play basketball in playgrounds.

In a city of 8 million people, Of course many people are outside. But you'd be surprised by how many parents have not allowed their kids to leave their apartments, but there isn't much you could.

coach wrote:

agip wrote:

This old guy thinks it was much worse in the 60s.

I was born only in the late 60s but I

Agree

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/06/02/opinion/stop-comparisons-1968-america-is-facing-very-different-set-risks-today/

Interesting article. While the author states that all crimes were more prevalent in the 60s and that racial divide was worse he also states that the political divide that is worse today and incompetence of Trump. There definitely is a feeling of hopelessness today that didnt exist 50 years ago.

I'm not sure today feels more hopeless. Things were very bad in the 60s-70s and there seemed no escape. War, high inflation, massive poverty, assassinations, the US was in massive decline, disco.

Today people are far, far richer, there is no war, no inflation, no assassinations, the US is fairly strong, disco is gone.

agip wrote:

coach wrote:

Interesting article. While the author states that all crimes were more prevalent in the 60s and that racial divide was worse he also states that the political divide that is worse today and incompetence of Trump. There definitely is a feeling of hopelessness today that didnt exist 50 years ago.

I'm not sure today feels more hopeless. Things were very bad in the 60s-70s and there seemed no escape. War, high inflation, massive poverty, assassinations, the US was in massive decline, disco.

Today people are far, far richer, there is no war, no inflation, no assassinations, the US is fairly strong, disco is gone.

I mean watch a movie filmed on US streets in the 1970s. It's absolutely crumbling. People look terrible. So much better now.

Agip, young people in the late 60s and early 70s believed they could effect change. Many might not have trusted those over 30 but they believed in their potential. A young person figured they'd have a job and that the job could last 20 years. You might have been able to answer the question " what do you want to do for the next 20 years." You might not have had a great salary but you could buy a house.

Do young people today feel the same?

Flagpole wrote:

The 60s were great. I didn't have to work or go to school. My meals were all prepared for me, and I could take a nap whenever I liked.

Sounds about right

Runner10287 wrote:

I like how some of you are completely oblivious to comparing civil unrest then vs whats going on today. You either were ignorant to the world then or obscured from it and still live in your own worlds today. Sad.

+1

It really, really says something about the privilege of so many posters here, that they basically just watched society change all around them while not engaging with or understanding the change at all. No wonder so many people feel like they woke up in a different world than they were born in - they never paid attention to the changes that were happening.

LRC: Run in the morning, sleepwalk the rest of your life.

The world needs good employees I guess wrote:

Runner10287 wrote:

I like how some of you are completely oblivious to comparing civil unrest then vs whats going on today. You either were ignorant to the world then or obscured from it and still live in your own worlds today. Sad.

+1

It really, really says something about the privilege of so many posters here, that they basically just watched society change all around them while not engaging with or understanding the change at all. No wonder so many people feel like they woke up in a different world than they were born in - they never paid attention to the changes that were happening.

LRC: Run in the morning, sleepwalk the rest of your life.

I feel like this was written in code.

Whoever wrote it is in their 20s, went to a selective college, inculcated in a certain kind of mass think that all you have to do is say like '125' and all his peers will nod and agree.

Say what you mean, young feller.

coach wrote:

Agip, young people in the late 60s and early 70s believed they could effect change. Many might not have trusted those over 30 but they believed in their potential. A young person figured they'd have a job and that the job could last 20 years. You might have been able to answer the question " what do you want to do for the next 20 years." You might not have had a great salary but you could buy a house.

Do young people today feel the same?

Yeah I'm just not sure this is true.

was born in the mid 60s and all I remember of the 1970s was relentless decline, war, gas shortages, high inflation, everything was made crappy, the talk was of the US in permanent decline, Nixon, and people were in very very bad health. And I was an upper middle class kid with very chance of doing well.

Maybe there is a distinction you are making between pre-Altamont and post-Altamont. Maybe until then there was some hope of real change. But not after.

coach wrote:

Runner10287 wrote:

Um I asked the question because things seem to be the same as 1968 right now. Curious why you think this is the wrong time to compare the two times periods?

The big difference is that were all stuck inside this year. There's no sports, no movies, no concerts, no diversions nothing to do or remember. My memories of 1968 involve music and baseball as much as Vietnam and the convention. We were able to hang out with friends in parks, beaches, and drive around.

There will only be bad memories of 2020. That's why I mentioned the youth are being cheated this spring and summer.

Politically, at least in this country it is similar. I believe it was similar the last presidential election too.

Lol, I'm also of the philosophy that the whole stay-at-home stuff is spurring on these protests and unrest. If the world were humming along as we were unaccustomed to, kids were still in school, unemployment was still low, everyone was out and about or distracted with sports or whatever, these things would not be happening. But now we're restless with nothing else much to do, the effects of the coronavirus have exposed glaring inequities in our society, and now people are taking to the streets without a clear end goal. Wonderful.

agreed...most of these protests end after a few days because we all have to go back to work. That's not happening this time. No one has to go back to work. Weird how these things work.

coach wrote:

Runner10287 wrote:

Weird. I see a lot of people outside when I check out my newsfeeds.

My family is outside as often as possible, but we still cant sit in local playgrounds, play pick up soccer games in parks or play basketball in playgrounds.

In a city of 8 million people, Of course many people are outside. But you'd be surprised by how many parents have not allowed their kids to leave their apartments, but there isn't much you could.

Are you aware what's going on in every major city nationwide?

As someone who was in high school in the late 1960s here is my perspective.

The race riots in the 1960s were much worse in terms of loss of life and destruction, but there are important differences. For one thing, the riots were confined to inner city neighborhoods. They were not in the downtown areas and Watts burned but there was not looting in upscale areas near Beverly Hills or in Santa Monica. In, fact those poor black areas were really cut off from the rest of the city. If you were white you just didn’t go there. The only time I was personally affected was when track meets were cancelled throughout my city after MLK was killed to avoid potential rioting.

There were also the anti-war protests going on at the same time. These were white kids and mostly centered around college campuses. There were a lot of clashes with police, burning of draft cards, and even taking over the administrative offices. A lot of it had to do with the draft. Johnson was even more reviled than Trump and was portrayed as a murderer. “Hey, hey LBJ, how many kids did you kill today?”

I was in the 1970 draft and, happily, my number was 345. Everyone in that era still remembers their draft number. In my year they took up to around 160. Many of friends with low numbers just went and enlisted. There were 4-5 on my xc team in this situation. By enlisting you served an extra year but could often avoid going to Vietnam. A couple of close friends spent most of their time in Germany.

And other thing I remember is that there was so much stuff happening and the rapid social and cultural changes. Remember, the “long hot summer” of 1967 was also the “summer of love”. Like most people my family watched the news (on our black and white TV) almost every night to see what was going on the world. On the same night there might be coverage of the horrors of the war, riots in Detroit, and crazy hippies in San Francisco. All the music was turning psychedelic.

Obviously, my perspective is biased but I think that time was better in many ways. Yes, we didn’t have instant access to all information and everyone in our social circle 24/7, but our lives were not dominated by technology. And despite all of the uncertainly and turmoil, there was a lot of optimism. We were going to the moon, and there was a social revolution underway that would change the world for the better – lead by our generation. Of course it didn’t quite turn out that way.

As far as politics, it is much more toxic and polarizing today. The nominating process is broken, and there is so much contempt for the other side it’s as if liberals and conservatives no longer share any common values. I’m not that optimistic that the social and political rifts in this country can be healed. Hopefully, I’m wrong, and my kids and grandkids will have the same opportunities for a better life that I did.

agip wrote:

The world needs good employees I guess wrote:

+1

It really, really says something about the privilege of so many posters here, that they basically just watched society change all around them while not engaging with or understanding the change at all. No wonder so many people feel like they woke up in a different world than they were born in - they never paid attention to the changes that were happening.

LRC: Run in the morning, sleepwalk the rest of your life.

I feel like this was written in code.

Whoever wrote it is in their 20s, went to a selective college, inculcated in a certain kind of mass think that all you have to do is say like '125' and all his peers will nod and agree.

Say what you mean, young feller.

It was plain as day, not receiving the message can be attributed to the receiver. I'm not afraid to speak more clearly, with less difficult constructs.

I'm saying: I believe the typical LRC poster (regardless of age) fits a profile. That profile: upper class, goes with the flow in society and everything seems to work pretty well, but never really questions if there's a different way. They just get instructions on the right way to live, and they follow the instructions, and it works out for them (at least, in getting them the typical modern American dream, which I would argue is a nightmare for someone who is not deluding themselves). Run in HS and get good grades, be a "good kid" (don't break The Rules), go to college and maybe run there, and then get a job and start building the house, the wife, the retirement savings. Life, with the default template, works amazingly for these people (they would argue).

But outside of the LRC poster's tunnel vision, there are people born into very different circumstances and for whom the same life template would not work at all. Some people grow up in places that make it really hard not to give into despair, when there's so little hope for the future. Some people don't even have access to parts of the pathway at all.

But LRC posters don't genuinely acknowledge these radical differences between people's situations. They're just like "why are people out there trying to change this wonderful world I live in", without really bothering to notice that these people are screaming for help and change. And when those people who scream out are heard, and society changes to accommodate them, LRC posters get angry, because to them it's a temper tantrum rewarded. The typical LRC poster seems to have grown up in an authoritarian household in the 60s or 70s, where you weren't allowed to question authority, and you think of that trait as a virtue in yourself and others.

In summary, I am saying, that the typical LRC poster is completely self-absorbed with their own community, with its culture and issues, and they log on here to judge and complain about the larger world they're willfully ignorant of. This happens to people of all stripes, but LRC's brand is the conservative authoritarian variety. I grew up in a household like that, and functioned that way for a long time until I had no choice but to seek alternatives because I became so miserable. I have lots of experience with this value system though, which is why I have such an easy time spotting that type of authoritarian thinking and judgment.

If your first reaction is to try and blow me off, feel free to recognize that as a close-minded way of protecting your ignorance, which is the key to believing the world is good and you're living right.

agip wrote:

sub sub elite local hobby jogger wrote:

Lol, I'm also of the philosophy that the whole stay-at-home stuff is spurring on these protests and unrest. If the world were humming along as we were unaccustomed to, kids were still in school, unemployment was still low, everyone was out and about or distracted with sports or whatever, these things would not be happening. But now we're restless with nothing else much to do, the effects of the coronavirus have exposed glaring inequities in our society, and now people are taking to the streets without a clear end goal. Wonderful.

agreed...most of these protests end after a few days because we all have to go back to work. That's not happening this time. No one has to go back to work. Weird how these things work.

Also forgot to add that people have the time to watch these police brutality against videos over and over and then discuss them endlessly. Previously we would have moved onto to something else or not paid as much attention. Now getting together for protests is pretty much the best option for social activities at the moment. Heck, I thought about heading down there because it seems liked a bit of excitement in the monotony. Hopefully all the outdoor air and moving about will strengthen their immune system because next they'll be in the ICU with COVID together.

The world needs good employees, I guess.

Thank you.

Much better post.

Bravo. Agree almost completely.

I'm amazed that anyone really thinks that Trump is on the verge of being a dictator. I agree Trump says some ridiculous things, puts his opponents down, and fights to win the election. But the idea that he will change the US from a Constitutional republic to a Dictatorship means YOU ARE WEARING THE TIN FOIL HAT.

All due respect, but when Obama became president Republicans didn't protest in the streets. Republicans care about a Constitutional Republic, we aren't close to Totalitarianism by any means.

Runner10287 wrote:

coach wrote:

My family is outside as often as possible, but we still cant sit in local playgrounds, play pick up soccer games in parks or play basketball in playgrounds.

In a city of 8 million people, Of course many people are outside. But you'd be surprised by how many parents have not allowed their kids to leave their apartments, but there isn't much you could.

Are you aware what's going on in every major city nationwide?

Of course not which is why I always preface posts with "where I live" or in the NYC metropolitan area. Regarding going outside, many of my colleagues have mentioned how their students have not been outside since mid March. These are poor inner city kids. Their parents are "essential workers" if they have jobs and they are frightened of the virus and frightened of gang kids or life in rough projects.

It's also why different states need different protocols dealing with this "pandemic.")

It's also why each of us sees "racism" and "white privilege" differently.

It's also why I recognize and respect and listen to most of the opinions on this message board.

coach wrote:

Runner10287 wrote:

Are you aware what's going on in every major city nationwide?

Of course not which is why I always preface posts with "where I live" or in the NYC metropolitan area. Regarding going outside, many of my colleagues have mentioned how their students have not been outside since mid March. These are poor inner city kids. Their parents are "essential workers" if they have jobs and they are frightened of the virus and frightened of gang kids or life in rough projects.

It's also why different states need different protocols dealing with this "pandemic.")

It's also why each of us sees "racism" and "white privilege" differently.

It's also why I recognize and respect and listen to most of the opinions on this message board.

So you have no clue of the prostest? The riots? The looting? The clearly non social distancing everywhere? Hence my hyperbolic comment of "people sure are going outside now".