2020 May 28 COVID-19 deaths South Korea: 269, United States: 102,107. What happened? How do we fix this?

Trump should be indicted and tried for Crimes Against Humanity

Allen53 wrote:

Start reporting deaths honestly- don't commit administrative euthanasia- don't pay hospitals to report everything as a "covid death"- hold media accountable for hysteria reporting. Just a start.

Where did you get that nonsense? Since when are hospitals “paid” to report deaths? We fill out death certificates individually. Either post a source, or stop making up nonsense.

Giles Corey wrote:

Allen53 wrote:

Start reporting deaths honestly- don't commit administrative euthanasia- don't pay hospitals to report everything as a "covid death"- hold media accountable for hysteria reporting. Just a start.

Yes.

Let's have a count of the covid deaths of people who tested positive for the virus and had no other comorbidities.

We's probably be down to less than 10,000 from what I can gathers

How is that relevant? If someone’s diabetic, or has high blood pressure, you’ve decided their death doesn’t count? A death is a death.

Remove Trump from office.

Some chunk of the excess deaths are from people having strokes and heart attacks who were too afraid to the hospital because of Covid.

Those count as victims/deaths related to the pandemic. In any other year, those people wouldn’t have died. So their “cause of death” on their death certificate won’t say “COVID”, but as far as epidemiological counts, their death was due to the pandemic.

S, Korea had their first positive case reported one day after the US had its first positive. A month later, S. Korea had completed 300,000 tests and the US had just 1,000. S, Korea was able to effectively control the virus by testing, tracing and isolating positives. They also implemented localized lockdowns when there were significant outbreaks and everyone wore masks in public. The US approach has been to basically surrender to the virus and just make sure that the health system doesn't collapse. The lockdowns on the east coast have made a big difference. But for much of the country, the lockdowns just kept the virus from running away. Very few states have the virus under control so that it can be contained with testing, tracing and isolation. The US has just refused to do the hard work to control the virus. To put it into perspective, Western Europe had many similar failures in originally addressing the virus. But they eventually got their act together. Yesterday, the US had over 20,000 new cases. Western Europe (excluding UK) had about 2,400. The US has endured the same economic pain and death as Western Europe but due to our inept response, we have nothing to show for it.

The only hope in the US is for a strong Federal response to try to reign in further growth in outbreaks. There needs to be periodic testing and OSHA/CDC guidance to prevent spread in high risk situations. Meat packing plants, prisons, nursing homes and retail operations need to operate on the best possible practices regardless of cost.

Another big mistake in the US is allowing positives to quarantine at home. This has allowed the virus to quickly spread to family members. Empty hotels and dorms across the country need to be requisitioned to allow people to quarantine away from family. Even on a voluntary basis, this would make a big difference.

Everyone needs to wear masks. It works. Japan was very diligent at testing and tracing and did not find a single incident of infection on public transportation. That is because everyone wears masks and no one talks on the subway in Japan.

There needs to be a binding Federal standard for lockdowns and reopening. Some states are doing a good job, most are not. That is why the US still has 20k new cases in a day after many parts of the country have been in lockdown for weeks.

Unfortunately, I do not see any big changes coming soon. We will probably stay right around where we are right now in terms of infection rates and deaths with some parts of the country improving and others getting worse. The only way this changes is if the Trump administration does a 180 or gets voted out and Biden puts some adults in charge.

Best. Post. Here.

I agree with everything you said. And I’m glad you listed the quarantine-at-home loophole. Too often, the virus ravages a family who’s had someone “quarantining”.

I’ve been sick for over 2 weeks, and I’m still getting over the virus myself. (I work in a COVID Hospital-hub, and have only taken care of COVID patients the last 2 months. It was only a matter of time before I made a mistake with my PPE and got infected). Luckily, our healthcare system booked out a bunch of hotel rooms for healthcare providers who got sick, and I was able to quarantine in a hotel for a week (until I got too sick and had to be hospitalized). But none of my family got it. It’s too bad that of the 1.5 million cases we’ve had, most people are not as lucky as I am to have an employer who offers that option.

Shannegen wrote:

Allen53 wrote:

Start reporting deaths honestly- don't commit administrative euthanasia- don't pay hospitals to report everything as a "covid death"- hold media accountable for hysteria reporting. Just a start.

Where did you get that nonsense? Since when are hospitals “paid” to report deaths? We fill out death certificates individually. Either post a source, or stop making up nonsense.

it's been widely reported by multiple mainstream incredible news services that hospitals do in fact get higher reimbursement for covid-19 patients. This was a direct result of the recent legislation and the stimulus package

So hospitals definitely do receive more funding for a death listed as covid-19 versus heart attack

Just do a Google search. Anyway with that said I don't think the number is r that far off you could argue it either way but it's probably pretty accurate

Lack of Leadership

Lack of Appropriate Response

Lack of Accelerated Execution

Shannegen wrote:

Giles Corey wrote:

Yes.

Let's have a count of the covid deaths of people who tested positive for the virus and had no other comorbidities.

We's probably be down to less than 10,000 from what I can gathers

How is that relevant? If someone’s diabetic, or has high blood pressure, you’ve decided their death doesn’t count? A death is a death.

GC and his/her cohort think that diabetics, fat people, old people, people with high blood pressure, etc., really kind of deserve to die five, ten, or twenty years before they otherwise would have. They're the same kind of unempathetic monsters that the President is.

Beyond that: Those "comorbidities" were just as present in the last five Mays as they are now; yet the total number of deaths from all causes is *markedly* higher each week now than was the average in those years. So no, the people with comorbidities were NOT "going to die anyway"--except in the sense that all of us are going to, at some point.

In tort law the but-for concept is used to help determine liability. Using that concept here: But for COVID-19, about a hundred thousand Americans who have died would still be alive.

[I say "about" a hundred thousand because, yes, a *small* fraction would have died anyway.]

The total weekly deaths now are MARKEDLY higher than the five-year average and--as has been pointed out--the totals for these weeks in 2020 will rise even *higher* because the official death notices are often slow to come in.

MidFootStriker wrote:

Shannegen wrote:

Where did you get that nonsense? Since when are hospitals “paid” to report deaths? We fill out death certificates individually. Either post a source, or stop making up nonsense.

it's been widely reported by multiple mainstream incredible news services that hospitals do in fact get higher reimbursement for covid-19 patients. This was a direct result of the recent legislation and the stimulus package

So hospitals definitely do receive more funding for a death listed as covid-19 versus heart attack

Just do a Google search. Anyway with that said I don't think the number is r that far off you could argue it either way but it's probably pretty accurate

Hospitals don’t get paid extra for COVID diagnosis. That’s just bad reporting. An average hospital stay for the flu is about 4.5 days. For COVID, it’s 4 WEEKS. Hospitals lose money on COVID patients two ways; the patients are in the hospital for a long time and the reimbursement doesn’t cover the cost, and we canceled all “elective” care that makes money for the hospital (think hip replacements, knee replacements, all elective surgeries,.. etc). The “extra” reimbursement for COVID is so that hospitals, especially in rural areas, don’t go bankrupt.

It has NOTHING to do with reporting deaths. And you can’t just “make up” a diagnosis to get the extra money. That’s insurance fraud, which is a federal felony, and no, doctors are not all fraudsters.

Giles Corey wrote:

Allen53 wrote:

Start reporting deaths honestly- don't commit administrative euthanasia- don't pay hospitals to report everything as a "covid death"- hold media accountable for hysteria reporting. Just a start.

Yes.

Let's have a count of the covid deaths of people who tested positive for the virus and had no other comorbidities.

We's probably be down to less than 10,000 from what I can gathers

Careful going down this road. An IQ such as yours would count as a comorbidity under your rules.

Shannegen wrote:

Giles Corey wrote:

Yes.

Let's have a count of the covid deaths of people who tested positive for the virus and had no other comorbidities.

We's probably be down to less than 10,000 from what I can gathers

How is that relevant? If someone’s diabetic, or has high blood pressure, you’ve decided their death doesn’t count? A death is a death.

It must be relevant if it troubles you that the fact is only about 10,000 Americans without comorbidities have died.

And the lockdown and increased poverty, unemployment, suicide rates, alcohol abuse do not contribute to any increase in deaths I guess.

A small fraction would have died? With most of the deaths taking place in nursing homes, an average age in excess of 80, 90% with at least one other life threatening condition. You are not being reasonable/

Harambe wrote:

Giles Corey wrote:

Yes.

Let's have a count of the covid deaths of people who tested positive for the virus and had no other comorbidities.

We's probably be down to less than 10,000 from what I can gathers

Careful going down this road. An IQ such as yours would count as a comorbidity under your rules.

Clever ain't your thing, is it?

Giles Corey wrote:

Harambe wrote:

Careful going down this road. An IQ such as yours would count as a comorbidity under your rules.

Clever ain't your thing, is it?

My burn was much better

Harambe wrote:

Giles Corey wrote:

Clever ain't your thing, is it?

My burn was much better

Only 10,000 Americans without comorbidities have died from Covid-19. Doesn't sizzle like the claim 100,000 Americans have died from the virus, does it. Not enough fear.