Great, now we can all learn how to draft then take the lead with 2 laps to go when we have no business being in the lead only to get passed by half the field in the last 1/2 lap! (one hell of a long sentence huh!) AND get that called one of the greatest moves by an US distance runner in the 90's!
He also gave it a shot in 2004 I believe, having run a 27:30-something that year prior to the trials, but he had a problem with his achilles?
training in racing season doesn't seem too dissimilar to that of Tegenkamp in his kimbia log. mainly shorter reps to turn the legs over, combined with a few longer reps at 3-5k pace, with easy runs in between and low mileage.
5000 wrote:
training in racing season doesn't seem too dissimilar to that of Tegenkamp in his kimbia log. mainly shorter reps to turn the legs over, combined with a few longer reps at 3-5k pace, with easy runs in between and low mileage.
I forgot how to get to those logs where he posted his training. Could you put the link up on the messageboard? Thanks.
It's interesting on how the elite runners (kennedy, teg) train during than racing season, kind of doesn't correspond with the daniels theory of training in the racing phase, you can't argue with the success of kennedy and teg so what should the average runner do, use the daniels theory or modify what kennedy/teg do to their own ability, I don't know seeing their training sort of makes me want to throw the DRF book out the window
44 weeks at 100 miles then 8 weeks at 60 miles
The average runner seems to do peak training for 52 weeks, it's just icing on the cake for these guys.
so I guess the question is, what is the best way to train in the racing phase, the daniels method with tempo pace intervals or the method that kennedy and teg use
Jtupper please comment on the training Kennedy did during his racing season in the 1996 and what Teg did this past summer in his racing season:
http://www.kimbia.net/newsarticle000120.html
To me it it contridicts(sp?) your racing phase training theories, I don't see any tempo pace intervals with either of these two elite 5000m runners.
bump. good thread...especially the beginning.
The inimitable ttc with his incredible insight into distance running performance:
ttc wrote:
I'm still in disbelief when so many predict sub-13:00 for any of our decent 5K'ers. We saw Bekele and Mottram go 12:55'ish. Do we really think Ryan Hall or Galen Rupp will ever do that? I sure don't. BK did, but was nearly top-10 in WC XC and a consistent 7:30-32 runner.
5000m is now middle distance (and was in '96 too).
"Wha-la. It is possible for amazing athletes to underachieve."
I think you mean "Voila"
Oh, and one more thing... wrote:
The inimitable ttc with his incredible insight into distance running performance:
ttc wrote:I'm still in disbelief when so many predict sub-13:00 for any of our decent 5K'ers. We saw Bekele and Mottram go 12:55'ish. Do we really think Ryan Hall or Galen Rupp will ever do that? I sure don't. BK did, but was nearly top-10 in WC XC and a consistent 7:30-32 runner.
Weird in retrospect. Rupp has run faster for 3k indoors than kennedy...and of course 3:50-12:58-26:44 and silver.
Still, I bet Rupp had a poster of Kennedy on his wall.
Bumping this great thread.
greatread wrote:
at dyestat.com
Bob Kennedy's Run to the '96 Olympics
"We've thumbed through Bob Kennedy’s 1996 training log and pulled workouts from a few key periods — leading up to the US Olympic Trials, a tune-up meet, and finally the Atlanta Olympics."
June 3: am- 6 miles pm- 6 miles
June 4: am- Track, 3 miles warm-up
400m- :59.8 (:60), 600m- 1:30.2 (:90), 800m- 2:02.3 (2:00),
1000m- 2:36.6 (2:30), 800m- 2:04.6 (2:00),
600m- 1:31.1 (:90), 400m- :60.3 - 2 mile cool down
pm- 4 miles
June 5: am- 5 miles pm- 5 miles, with 8*100m
June 6: am- Track, 3 miles warm-up
4*200m (:28.1, :27.7, :27.4, :26.6) (:80) (3:00)
4*200m (:28.1, :27.4, :27.4, :26.7) (:80) (3:00)
4*200m (:27.6, :27.2, :27.6, :26.8) (:75) - 1.5 miles cool down
pm- 4 miles
June 7: am- 5 miles, with 4*100m strides pm- 4miles
June 8: am- 3 miles
pm- Track, 3 miles warm-up
1600m (:58, :63, :60, :66) – 4:07.2 (3:00)
1600m (:64, :59, :67, :60) – 4:10.6 (3:00)
1600m (:60, :66, :60, :67) – 4:13.6 - 2 mile cool down
June 9: 11 miles
75 miles for the week
One week before the Olympic Trials
June 10: am- 5 miles pm- 5 miles
June 11: am- 4 miles
pm- Track, 3 miles warm-up
4*400m (:58.1, :57.5, :58.5, :57.8) (:60) (3:00)
4*400m (:57.2, :58.2, :57.6, :58.1) (:60) (3:00)
4*400m (:58.0, :57.5, :57.2, :57.2) (:60) - 2 mile cool down
June 12: am- 5 miles pm- 3 miles
June 13: am- 5 miles
pm- 3 mile warm-up
1000m (2:27.6) (2:30)
600m (1:26.2) (2:00)
400m (:56.1) (:90)
200m (:26.8) - 1.5 mile cool down
June 14: am- 5 miles pm- 3 miles
June 15: am- 8 miles pm- 4 miles
June 16: am- Track, 3 mile warm-up
4*200m (:28.8, :28.2, :28.1, :28.1) (:75) (2:45)
4*200m (:28.3, :28.8, :27.9, :27.7) (:75) - 2 mile cool down
67 miles for the week
Week of the Olympic Trials.
June 17: am- 5 miles pm- 3 miles
June 18: am- 5 miles pm- 4 miles, strides
June 19: am- 3 miles
Olympic Trials (semi)
3 mile warm-up
5000m- 13:58.8 – (3600m-4200m, 1:31)
3 mile cool down, strides
June 20: am- 4 miles pm- 4 miles, strides
June 21: am- 2 miles
Olympic Trials (Final)
3 mile warm-up
5000m – 13:46.1 – 1st Place
4 mile cool down, 3rd K (2:35), last 3K (8:05)-fartlek
June 22: 3 miles
June 23: 8 miles
60 miles for the week
Week after the Olympic Trials.
June 24: am- Track, 3 mile warm-up
5*400 (:59.0, :58.3, :58.8, :58.8, :59.3)(:55) (4:00)
5*400 (:59.6, :58.5, :59.9, :58.5, :57.4)(:60) - 2.5 mile cool down
June 25: am- Travel to London pm- 7 miles
June 26: am- 5 miles pm- 5 miles
June 27: am- 7 miles pm- 5 miles
June 28: am- Track, 3 mile warm-up
8*200m (:28.9, :28.2, :28.4, :28.0, :28.6, :27.7, :27.7, :27.8)(:75)
2 mile cool down
pm- 5 miles
June 29: am- 5 miles pm- 3 miles, strides
June 30: am- 2 miles
Gateshead, 3 mile warm-up
1500m – 3:40.97 – 1st Place- 2 mile cool down
64 miles for the week
One week before Stockholm and the American Record.
July 1: 13 miles
July 2: am- 3 miles
pm- Track, 3 mile warm-up
1200m (3:05.1)(:60) 400m (:58.5) (4:00)
1200m (3:00.8)(:60) 400m (:58.2) (4:00)
1200m (2:59.1)(:60) 400m (:57.5) - 2 mile cool down
July 3: am- 5 miles, 8 strides
July 4: am- 5 miles pm- 5 miles, strides
July 5: am- 3 miles
pm- Track, 3 miles warm-up
4*400m (:59.6, :61.5, :60.0, :58.0)(:60) (2:30)
4*200m (:29.7, :28.5, :28.5, :28.1)(:70) - 1.5 mile cool down
July 6: am- 7 miles
July 7: am- 5 miles pm- 3 miles, with strides
64 miles for the week
Stockholm and the American Record, and two weeks before the Olympics.
July 8: am- 2 miles
pm- Stockholm
3 mile warm-up, 5000m – 12:58.75 (AR)-2nd Place
2:37, 5:10(2:33), 7:47(2:37), 10:24(2:37), 12:58(2:34)
1 mile cool down, strides
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 15: am- Track, 3 mile warm-up
5*1000m (2:32.7, 2:32.4, 2:31.7, 2:31.5, 2:30.5)(2:00)
3 mile cool down
pm- 5 miles
July 16: am- 7 miles
July 17: am- Track, 3 mile warm-up
4*400m (:59.6, :59.2, :58.1, :59.7)(:55) (3:00)
4*400m (:59.6, :59.4, :59.1, :58.1)(:55) (3:00)
4*400m (:59.0, :58.8, ;59.5, :58.1)(:55) - 2 mile cool down
pm: 5 miles
July 18: am- 5 miles pm: Travel to Atlanta
July 19: am- 7.5 miles pm- 3 miles
July 20: pm- 8.5 miles
July 21: am- Track, 3 mile warm-up
4*400m (:62.7, :59.9, :60.1, :59.1)(:55) (2:30)
4*400m (:61.5, :59.9, :59.8, :58.5)(:55) - 1 mile cool down
pm- 5 miles
69 miles for the week
One week before the Olympics.
July 22: am- 5 miles pm- 5 miles
July 23: am- Track, 3 mile warm-up
1600m (4:06.6) (4:00)
1200m (3:02.8) (4:00)
800m (1:58.9) (4:00)
400m (:55.4) - 3 mile cool down
pm- 5 miles
July 24: am- 5 miles pm- 5 miles
July 25: am- 5 miles pm- 5 miles, 4*100m strides
July 26: am- Track, 3 mile warm-up
3*400m (:59.7, :60.0, :59.4)(:90)
3*300m (:42.9, :43.2, :43.2)(:70) (3:00)
3*200m (:27.4, :28.0, :27.0)(:70) - 2 mile cool down
pm- 3 miles
July 27: am- 3 miles pm- 3 miles, strides, 2 miles
July 28: pm- Track, 2.5 mile warm-up
4*200 (:28.5, :28.0, :27.8, :27.5)(:65) (2:45)
4*200 (:28.7, :27.6, :28.7, :27.2)(:65) - 1.5 mile cool down
66 miles for the week
Olympic Games in Atlanta, Semi-Finals and Finals.
July 29: am – 5 miles pm- 3 miles, strides, 3 miles
July 30: am- 5 miles pm- 4 miles, strides
July 31: am- 1.5 miles
pm- Olympic Games (1st round)
2.5 mile warm-up, 5000m – 13:54.57 – 4th Place
1 mile cool down, ice bath, light massage
August 1: am- 1.5 miles
pm- Olympic Games (Semi)
2.5 mile warm-up, 5000m – 13:27.9 – 4th Place
1 mile cool down, ice bath, light massage
August 2: 3 miles, strides
August 3: am- 1.5 miles
pm- Olympic Games (Final)
2.5 warm-up, 5000m – 13:12.35 – 6th Place
1 mile cool down
Notice the doubles.
ttc wrote:
JYU wrote:
And from a guy with a 53 second 400 PR...
He was a 3:38 1500m guy, so I'm sure he could run at least a couple seconds faster, but just hardly ever competed in the event.
If by "a couple seconds faster" you mean 3-4, I agree. He was not a 53 seconds slow 400 meter runner. No miler with his speed was, is or will be.
Oh, and one more thing... wrote:
The inimitable ttc with his incredible insight into distance running performance:
ttc wrote:
I'm still in disbelief when so many predict sub-13:00 for any of our decent 5K'ers. We saw Bekele and Mottram go 12:55'ish. Do we really think Ryan Hall or Galen Rupp will ever do that? I sure don't. BK did, but was nearly top-10 in WC XC and a consistent 7:30-32 runner.
Oh man that was a gem by ttc! If you want to be right most of the time, just take the opposite viewpoint of his.
The 12x200m workout seems a little odd to me for some reason. Is that typical for a 5,000m/10,000m specialist? If anything I would think he would tack on 4x200 at the end of a 400m or 800m repeat workout. 200m repeats on their own seem more like 800/mile/3000 work to me.
Do people know of other longer-distance pros doing that type of workout? I haven't done something like that since I quit running 3000m and lower. Maybe I should do more speedwork!
greatread wrote:
duathlon.com: What kind of mileage did you run in 1998.
Bob Kennedy: When I was in Australia in January and February I was up to a maximum of 141miles in a week. It was basically a gradual 105, 115, 135, 140, 135 miles per week. The bulk was in the 125 to 130 range. About 6 weeks of that. I raced at the end of February down there and ran 13:15 for 5000m, off of that training and a week of 90 miles.
duathlon.com: How did that kind of mileage feel?
Bob Kennedy: It wasn't bad. I have nothing else to do down there, and in fact, on my second 10 miler of the day, the first 30 minutes would be horrible, and the second 30 minutes I felt great. Time and time again the second 30 minutes would be much easier.
duathlon.com: What is your weekly mileage from March to May.
Bob Kennedy: Ideally I want to do 100 to 110 miles per week. That includes one long run of 13 to 16 miles
duathlon.com: What type of mileage do you do during the European racing season?
Bob Kennedy: Early summer it starts at about 75 miles a week and it goes all the way down to about 50 by the end of the summer. When I can, a day or two after a race, if I don't race again for another 10 days I will do a 75 minute run to keep the aerobic thing going, and that is my long run.
What I don't understand is that if the best American runner of the 90s was putting in good mileage. Why was low mileage so prevalent?
Low mileage era wrote:
greatread wrote:
duathlon.com: What kind of mileage did you run in 1998.
Bob Kennedy: When I was in Australia in January and February I was up to a maximum of 141miles in a week. It was basically a gradual 105, 115, 135, 140, 135 miles per week. The bulk was in the 125 to 130 range. About 6 weeks of that. I raced at the end of February down there and ran 13:15 for 5000m, off of that training and a week of 90 miles.
duathlon.com: How did that kind of mileage feel?
Bob Kennedy: It wasn't bad. I have nothing else to do down there, and in fact, on my second 10 miler of the day, the first 30 minutes would be horrible, and the second 30 minutes I felt great. Time and time again the second 30 minutes would be much easier.
duathlon.com: What is your weekly mileage from March to May.
Bob Kennedy: Ideally I want to do 100 to 110 miles per week. That includes one long run of 13 to 16 miles
duathlon.com: What type of mileage do you do during the European racing season?
Bob Kennedy: Early summer it starts at about 75 miles a week and it goes all the way down to about 50 by the end of the summer. When I can, a day or two after a race, if I don't race again for another 10 days I will do a 75 minute run to keep the aerobic thing going, and that is my long run.
What I don't understand is that if the best American runner of the 90s was putting in good mileage. Why was low mileage so prevalent?
I believe he was the one who sparked the return to higher mileage.