Will I Ever Be Fast? a training thread

This week turned into a recovery week unexpectedly due to work being very busy/stressful. I'm trying not to feel guilty, but I think I really needed some rest after building every week the last 8 weeks.

June 15-21

Tuesday: 2 miles @ 10:50 pace

Sunday: 3 miles at 10:42 pace (90 degree weather sigh)

Total: 5 miles

Planning on running 15 miles this upcoming week may add in 2 more if legs feel okay.

turtlegirl wrote:

Background: Ran throughout middle school and high school. I don't think I ever ran more than 20 miles/week (#terriblehighschoolcoaching). I was injured most of high school and by senior year burnt out. I'm now in my mid-20s and want to give running a shot again. I think I have potential (with A LOT of time and effort to be put in). Btw I'm a girl.

PRs:

400m: 62 (freshmen year but ran around this throughout high school)

800m: 2:30 (freshmen year)

1600m: 6:02 (8th grade, didn't run this event during high school)

Can't remember XC prs but I did medal in meets so I didn't suck.

Happy for any feedback or thoughts any of you want to add to this thread. Thanks!

You only ran 20 mpw but were "injured most of high school" and burned out by senior year? That doesnt sound like the coaching was necessarily to blame.

Here is another interpretation: despite your very fragile physical state, your coach managed to keep you only injured most of the time by limiting your mileage to 20 mpw.

I'm playing devil's advocate here, but mostly because I'm not sure why you decided to blame your high school coach when it wasnt really relevant.

June 22-28

Tuesday: 5 miles @ 10:53 pace

Thursday: 4 miles @ 10:58 pace

Saturday: 3.5 miles @ 10:45 pace

Sunday: 2.5 miles @ 10:55 pace with 3 strides mixed in. 40 minute lifting routine

Total miles: 15

Switched to running early mornings to help get away from the summer heat. 4 days running a week seems to be going fine. I plan to add ~2 additional miles this upcoming week.

June 29 - July 5

Monday: 30 minutes Yoga for Runners

Tuesday: 5 miles @ 11:13 pace

Thursday: 4.5 miles @ 10:54 pace

Saturday: 4 miles @ 11:10 pace

Sunday: 3.5 miles @ 10:53 pace

Total miles: 17

Slowly getting used to grinding through hot summer miles. Not much focus on pace these days. I think this week I'll stick with 17 miles total but am looking to lengthen my long run to 6 miles.

Isn't your training a bit too easy for your background/age? I feel like it might hinder progression at all due to the lack of intensity, which could be added with cross and strength training, if you are super injury prone and even help with prevention.

I was wondering if something like the Verheul/Easy Interval method might be a good fit? Given your good natural speed, it might be worth doing aerobic interval work (i.e. not hard intervals) which allows you to use your speed a little more?

Quick question wrote:

Isn't your training a bit too easy for your background/age? I feel like it might hinder progression at all due to the lack of intensity, which could be added with cross and strength training, if you are super injury prone and even help with prevention.

I think there is some trolling going on. I'm 256 pounds right now, 46 years old, and could run faster than those times. Eleven minute pace as a run would barely be moving, especially if the individual had "62 second 400m wheels."

I'd recommend running for time at first. Don't even worry about pace, just try and get in 20-30 minutes a day for a couple weeks until you feel motivated to do more. You'll still hit around 20-25 miles like you wanted, but you can just focus on getting the effort in and not so much your pace.

Definitely spend a good amount of time getting your miles up and building a base. Maybe take 2-3 months of that, then move on to some workouts. It'll feel like slow progress, but it'll keep you healthy.

turtlegirl wrote:

June 29 - July 5

Monday: 30 minutes Yoga for Runners

Tuesday: 5 miles @ 11:13 pace

Thursday: 4.5 miles @ 10:54 pace

Saturday: 4 miles @ 11:10 pace

Sunday: 3.5 miles @ 10:53 pace

Total miles: 17

Slowly getting used to grinding through hot summer miles. Not much focus on pace these days. I think this week I'll stick with 17 miles total but am looking to lengthen my long run to 6 miles.

Oops my previous post was before I read this. I think you have the right idea with the long run. If you are doing less than 30 miles a week, I would say 6-7 miles is totally fine.

Boots On The Ground wrote:

Quick question wrote:

Isn't your training a bit too easy for your background/age? I feel like it might hinder progression at all due to the lack of intensity, which could be added with cross and strength training, if you are super injury prone and even help with prevention.

I think there is some trolling going on. I'm 256 pounds right now, 46 years old, and could run faster than those times. Eleven minute pace as a run would barely be moving, especially if the individual had "62 second 400m wheels."

I ran similar times when I started out running, even slower actually. And I could run a 200 in 27 and 400 in 62 or so. After 10 years of not doing anything physical. It takes time to build up the aerobic endurance and run faster than 11-13 min/mile. And I wasn't overweight, at all btw.

11-13 min/mile is what hobby joggers typically run. 8 min/mile easy pace is already considered top-elite level for hobby joggers in clubs. Hobby jogger clubs typically have groups for the following pace ranges:

a) 11-13 min/mile or slower, slow runners

b) 9-11 min/mile, medium runners

c) 8-9 min/mile, fast runners

d) <8 min/mile, advanced

She needs to keep up with the training, maybe add cross-training to further endurance development and her heart will become a lot stronger and all her paces much faster.

Yeah, but still: she's young (mid 20's), thin and seems fairly athletic (28min 5k as a baseline) - so probably no extended period of real sedentarism. This training seems to have zero intensity for such a person. Also, you already have a 3 month progression which seems to be PAINFULLY slow and doesn't seem to be going on an upwards trajectory.

Am I missing something?

Totally agree that there's a need for a nice base, but this strategy doesn't seem efficient (and me personally wouldn't find it pleasurable).

I'm not trolling. Despite what you guys think, I don't come here just to piss you off with my slow running. I don't enjoy my 11 minute miles or my "extremely slow progress". It sucks. I miss when running wasn't so hard and I didn't feel like a slow a$$ slug. It's embarrassing. But I know that if I stick with it, it can be enjoyable again.

Where I'm located, it's been 80+ degrees at 6am in the morning with 95% humidity and during the day it's still 90+ with high humidity the past few weeks. It makes running and building my mileage difficult AND slow. I'm doing the best I can. I haven't ran or consistently done cardio in 6-7yrs. This past month, I've been trying to be content with just the increase in mileage.

If I run faster, I'm worried that I won't be able to continue to build my mileage up. I could try running 5-6 days a week with less miles and higher intensity; however, I feel like what I'm really lacking is endurance and that I should be focusing on that? But I am willing to try different things. I like the idea of intervals too.

What if.... I work up to 20 miles/week and then stay at that 20 per a week while ramping up intensity until I'm able to run at faster paces consistently? And then up the mileage again after that. Do you think that could work?

Also, thank you to everyone that has provided constructive feedback or advice throughout this thread so far.

You have a better chance of reaching your goal for 1600 than I do.

turtlegirl wrote:

If I run faster, I'm worried that I won't be able to continue to build my mileage up. I could try running 5-6 days a week with less miles and higher intensity; however, I feel like what I'm really lacking is endurance and that I should be focusing on that? But I am willing to try different things. I like the idea of intervals too.

What if.... I work up to 20 miles/week and then stay at that 20 per a week while ramping up intensity until I'm able to run at faster paces consistently? And then up the mileage again after that. Do you think that could work?

Sounds good! 20 miles / week is not bad, people have run very good times off that.

If you do wish to try an aerobic interval session rather than a steady run, you could try for example doing 6-10 x 400m with 400m very easy jog in between. The 'on' 400m should be 'relaxed'/'smooth'/'easy' fast running: you should not be pushing hard. If 400m is too long to get the right feeling, try 200m or even 100m (you may wish to shorten the rest e.g. to 200m, but don't have to). Break into sets if you like, i.e. do an 800m jog or whatever rather than 400m after every 2 or 3. Feel free to mix distances as well, e.g. a descending ladder of 800 - 600 - 400 - 300 - 200 - 100 with equal length very easy jog rest.

You may find you actually feel better when incorporating a little 'easy fast' running like this now and then.

Yea 20 mpw is enough to run quite fast, but it needs high quality.

I think #1 goal should be to improve the bad endurance (only 28 min 5k atm). That can be done with cycling/swimming/walking etc. You can't just run 60+ mpw out of nowhere, but you need to stay physically active as much as you can. Your heart can't tell the difference between running and cycling and swimming, it will get stronger no matter what you do.

That process takes a long time, but improvements will be "persistent" and long-term. Then for running, with 4 runs a week, you could do that:

1x long run, building from 60 mins to 75/90 mins

1x tempo run, 20-30 min at a brisk pace

1x moderate run, around 10 min/mile

1x very easy recovery run, not longer than 45 min

After 1-2 months you could start alternating the tempo run with intervals, such as 4x800 or 10x400 focusing on relaxation. And keep doing bike rides, swimming, elliptical, whatever you can do build your aerobic fitness. These activities can be done with friends at low intensity as well.

I like this idea and will definitely try it out this week at least once.

turtlegirl wrote:

I like this idea and will definitely try it out this week at least once.

Sorry meant this in reply to "good luck".

Also Phil, thank you. I like the idea of switching to timed based runs rather than distance. I think that'll help me run faster - at least until this Southeastern summer is over

I'm really sorry if I came off rude, really wasn't my intention! Genuinely still believe that you can progress a little faster and with a more enjoyable training! But if you're saying that the last 3 months did indeed have some intensity, they have certainly contributed to your endurance and it's just a matter of keeping patient for it to show a little more!

I think both suggestions of running for time are really nice (LaterRunnerPhil and WinnytheBish). If you aim to run every or most days of the week, I would go with the 20-30min every day and building one longer day . Maybe add some surges/strides/hills when you feel good and a speedier day (in any format you enjoy), as long as it doesn't compromise the consistency of the rest of the week. That way you can build going 100% on how you're feeling and you will let your body dictate volume and pace.

Phil's suggestion is really good if you're willing to cross train and don't want to run 5+ days of the week, as it provides a nice framework that still allows your body to dictate the intensity.

I would choose based on the routine that I enjoy the most and the training that left me most invigorated. BTW, I'm also female and started running +/- at your age with a similar baseline 5k, though with no injury background, but also with closer to zero running background.