Nick Willis and Mary Cain to run for Tracksmith

Oiselle had an athlete that had a Nike Shoe deal, then Lauren Fleshman fired her. Think she was a vaulter , cant remember .

coyote22 wrote:

Their treatment of their athletes sounds great, but man, their clothes are ugly. Prep school crossed with the 80’s leftovers in the high school XC closet.

I agree. I have tried to find some of their gear to take a chance on but I can’t. The entire brand is built on a nostalgia that I have not experienced. Kudos to the amateurs running the Boston Marathon in the 70s and 80s but that’s a narrowing demographic.

Looks like vintage Macgregor apparel. Meanwhile, USA distance still remains unpopular because the sub obese public can't relate to the type of athlete that can beat Easteran/Western Africans.. instead we cry about our weight, psychological pressure, and focus on fashion other than performance which hgv as brutal standards. ~ dude in quarentine

First time I heard about thid brand, I'm from Europe. I was in the process of buying a few of their singlets and shorts as I like the style, but became too annoyed at checkout when realized they don't have VAT included in their prices but add it at checkout. Come on.

Another SJW brand like Patagonia.

Wut Disaster wrote:

Aren't they supposed to be about the amateur spirit?? What's with hiring pro runners then. So bad

Yeah that seems to be completely against the philosophy of the company. I am all for the sport returning back some sort of amateur status (maybe it will have to in the wake of this coronavirus crisis) to reduce doping and to rid itself of all these corrupt agents and coaches. I was even thinking purchasing some of Tracksmith's gear (even though it looks expensive) because of what I thought the company represented. However with the company making this sort of decision I will probably not get any of their stuff as I am not sure what I will be supporting.

Wut Disaster wrote:

Their recent decisions come across as super desperate. Sales must be tanking. Maybe there's some niche that really wants to be associated with Mary Cain and social justice causes, but why split your audience when it's doubtful her presence will actively attract anyone? Aren't they supposed to be about the amateur spirit?? What's with hiring pro runners then. So bad

Yeah, how does social justice go with their brand image (prep school, upper class) look? It's like BMW would be marketing their cars to homeless people - they would lose their existing customers and wouldn't get any new ones.

it's not about their politics, per se, it's about what the brand once said it stood for and where it has ended up today

They used to be about Made in America: gone, exported manufacturing overseas

They used to be about high prices for high quality: gone, it's paper thin cotton and the glue adhesive on their logo falls off after three washes

They used to be about simple 80s nostalgic throwbacks: gone, all their new products in the past year or two wouldn't be out of place on the NB or Adidas websites, real bland with zero inspiration

They used to be about the amateur spirit: gone, now they're literally hiring pros and publishing pieces in the NYT about it

For a brand that was really built almost entirely on a connection to a spirit of running rather than the clothing itself, they've really sold themselves out

CGeorgeRun wrote:

Running Perspective - she has world class talent. And that doesn't go away. If she has a good training year, anything is possible.

HR/Risk Management - she's a stirrer? She was treated terribly by her coach as a very young adult. And the treatment was acknowledged by several witnesses. When I think of a stirrer - I imagine someone who complains for no reason or intentionally wants to create trouble. By all accounts, she was a model teammate.

And yes, an employee can be terminated at will. But the terminated employee will be eligible for unemployment and health benefits after termination. That's a heck of a lot better than being an independent contractor who can get reduced or outright canceled after which the contractor is left with no income and no way to pay for health insurance.

It's not about talent/innate ability - it's about development over time and the history of an athlete.

Like you said, she was abused by her coach. He destroyed her with super-hard training that he thought is necessary to reach the top. Imagine yourself as young, 17-year old HS kid. You just PR'ed in the mile in a super competitive race, beating other, older runners who were favored to win. Time to celebrate right? Nope, it's time to go to another track, for the "hardest post-race workout of your life". 3-mile tempo, despite never having done one before, followed by cutdown 600-400-300-200 (closing in 27 flat). You thought after the mile PR where you suffered so much your coach would finally be happy and take you out to dinner or celebrate it, but not, he thinks it's necessary to let you run and train even harder. That's gonna mentally destroy a young HS kid. Then you got all the other things, obsession with optimizing weight, etc., but the main thing was the abuse. He also forced her to run easy days on 6:30/mi. He treated her as a machine with running talent, not like a human.

Then performances deteriorated over years, new coach wasn't successful either, stuck in a loop of "what could have been". This runner was mentally broken over many years. Now claiming to prepare for Tokyo 2021 is just gonna cause another burnout/disappointment. None of her recent races in NYC indicated potential or shape to be top 3 in the 1500 in the US. It's extremely competitive, I can list you at least 10, if not 15 runners who have a higher chance to qualify based on their current form and race forms (using Cain's recent 9:07 3k race as reference point).

Also, anyone seriously training for the Olympics next year would not take on a full-time job. It's only gonna distract and take-away from the training. Do Houlihan, Schweizer, Purrier, etc., some of her potential competitors, have full-time jobs? Claiming to have a chance to qualify for Tokyo WITH a 40+ hour job in NYC, after many years of no exceptional race, purely based on talent and outstanding times in HS is an insult to all runners who devote 100% of their life to the Olympic dream, and don't secure their future career by already having a job and getting job experience.

I think she made the right decision by taking on the full-time job, but her goal should not be Tokyo 2021, but to get fitter again, and run closer to her PR's. A bit of realism and modesty go a long way!

bring back the amateur era? wrote:

Wut Disaster wrote:

Aren't they supposed to be about the amateur spirit?? What's with hiring pro runners then. So bad

Yeah that seems to be completely against the philosophy of the company. I am all for the sport returning back some sort of amateur status (maybe it will have to in the wake of this coronavirus crisis) to reduce doping and to rid itself of all these corrupt agents and coaches. I was even thinking purchasing some of Tracksmith's gear (even though it looks expensive) because of what I thought the company represented. However with the company making this sort of decision I will probably not get any of their stuff as I am not sure what I will be supporting.

Funny about that - NB also went through a period of non-endorsement. I think I still have a NB shirt that says ‘endorsed by no one’ or something like that. Point was to have amateur passion pushing the brand rather than a paid spokesperson.

That lasted a while but then NB decided they needed to endorse professionals.

There's always a story about why something happens. Of course, New Balance wanted to stand behind its quality and not have flashy athletes pitching its sneakers. But in 1990, the brand was left with a very sticky situation. It had given Los Angeles Laker star James Worthy a big contract, but then he was caught with a prostitute—an image that didn't set well with Jim Davis. Davis and New Balance cut ties with Worthy and fully stood behind their "Endorsed by No One" image for quite awhile. It's kind of hard to stand behind a man you label as "Trust Worthy" after a situation like this, even if his sneakers were too, too dope..

https://www.complex.com/sneakers/2013/06/50-things-you-didnt-know-about-new-balance/100

Isn't Tracksmith known as an American brand for amateurs? So they hire a foreign professional runner? I actually think he will do better than Cain though. She will want to tell her story but she will be expected to organize events where that will happen. She is used to being called to come and talk or just having a mic stuck in her face. I don't think she has held a real job.

uncle sammy wrote:

Isn't Tracksmith known as an American brand for amateurs? So they hire a foreign professional runner?

...and then they put said professional runner in a shirt that says "Amateur" for their press release/tweet/marketing crap.

Huh?

themanontherun wrote:

First and only time I hear a bad word about the brand and it’s from the peanut gallery on Letsrun; shocking.

Yep, plenty of critics of genuine success to be found here. Wonder why.

I didn't see it posted anywhere so I figured i'd paste it from the Tracksmith website.

https://journal.tracksmith.com/for-the-love

Mary is our New York Community Manager, helping grow our on-the-ground and virtual efforts in one of the most vibrant running scenes in the world. Nick is our Athlete Experience Manager, using his decades of competitive experience to build programming that will inspire, motivate and deepen our community’s connection to the sport.

It will be interesting to see what "programming" Tracksmith and NW come forth with to "deepen the community's connection to the sport."

Congrats to both and props to Tracksmith for trying something that feels like a new idea (even if it isn't the first time this has been done).

I’m happy for both of them with the move but this seems like a transit to a post-racing career for both of them. A lot of people keep talking about how the work/train job set-up looks like a good idea, but these two are going to be at a big disadvantage to all of the full-time pros. How does Tracksmith expect them to qualify for the Olympics when they have a laundry list of administrative crap that they are required to handle on top of their training?

goodstuffnotcheap wrote:

their merino wool long sleeve winter running shirt is the best in the game. i absolutely love them. have like 4-5 now. i live on the ocean (n. atlantic) and they are crucial in the winter. beats the poo out of any nike tech thing

You should try Duckworth and their Vapor Wool line. 100% made in the USA. They raise the sheep themselves in Montana, shear them and send them to all USA based factories for the final product. I've got a few pieces of their stuff . It's nice stuff, maybe not the most "sporty" looking but it gets the job done and I'm supporting a company that is FULLY invested in American jobs. (None of this "designed in" crap yet it's all made overseas or imports the parts and the final assembly is in the US).

Tracksmith also recently started some sponsorship relationship with Tina Muir and more social media influencer involvement (for instance, sponsoring episodes of the Ali on the Run podcast). I love Tracksmith, but thought these were confusing choices.

It makes sense . When dreams become reality.... this is for the dreamers who want to be nick willis and the reality when they realize they are Mary Cain