Did Mike Rossi (viral marathon dad) cheat his way into Boston?

Sigh. OK. Here is the likely outcome of this - and it's not all bad.

As clear as the cheating seems to be, there is not slam dunk evidence sufficient to DQ either Boston or Lehigh.

The best thing that will result - and I can't believe it isn't in place, is that not only Boston, but the IAAF will REQUIRE interim timing mats at least at the halfway mark for certification. Notice how Lehigh has now said they will have 6 timing mats this year?

This would have resolved all of this problem.

What happened is wrong, but I think it's time to move forward and minimize the opportunity of it happening again.

LShek wrote:

Totally agree. The publicity will die down inside of 2 weeks. The forumites will move on to other stuff. And that other guy still didn't get to run.

Once Rossi gets DQ'd, surely Boston can offer an automatic spot for 2016 to the person who missed out. Will be a great story too.

Q: how many runners who ran between 3:00 and 3:20 were photographed at very first spot (4 miles in?)? Was Mr. Rossi the only one not there? Seems highly improbable that the photographer would need any sort of break at that point. He/she should have captured pretty much everyone, especially the faster runners.[/quote]

The Broad Street race photos are up. Mike knew exactly how to mug for the cameras at Philly, but not in Allentown last September. Do I have that right, Mr. Rossi?

WOW - after reading the FB Screenshots (Thanks Guys/Gals) - I can honestly say he is coming close to being as big of an ass clown as dane rauschenberg. Those are some pretty big ears to fill as well!

Great Job Mike 'Rosie Ruiz' Rossi

Very nice...I just emailed you a $5 bill to get started on this

It's not accurate at all. From the Yahoo Article:

Alan Brookes is director of the Canada Running Series, which oversees the Toronto Waterfront Marathon as well as high-profile races from Vancouver to Montreal. Brookes told Yahoo Canada that when the authenticity of a result is called into question, he relies on two confirmation methods: timing mats and photos. Timing mats are usually placed along the course to give runners split times, and to ensure they’re not cutting corners along the route (also called “cutting the course”). The Lehigh Valley course is point-to-point (a straight line from start to finish; it doesn’t go in a loop or out and back), so it doesn’t use timing mats along the course to verify times.

In the absence of timing mats, Brookes said a lack of photos isn’t a good sign.

“That’s a big problem,” he said.

Without timing and photographic proof, Brooke said, the onus shifts to the runner to prove they legitimately finished the race.

The real problem is not that there is all this circumstantial evidence that would indicate that he did not run that race or incapable of running the race but that there is not a single shred of evidence that remotely directs to the assertion that he did. None. An 18 mile long run at 7:50/mile with walk breaks is not indicative of a 3:11 marathon. And that is all he has shown.

Rossi's argument is not unlike Russell's teapot: "You can't prove with 100% certainty that there is not a teapot orbiting Saturn, therefore it must be true" This kind of argument is also frequently used in religious debates but it does not stand up to scrutiny.

I don't know if the guy is a cheat or not. But, here is why it matters to me that if he cheated, he's caught:

I'm 40, running about 3 years (minus 6 months for injury). I started improving, as expected, and ran sub 22 in about 6 months in. At about 2 years I got sub 20. Then I said, I'll train for a marathon. Probably won't BQ, since I don't run 60-70 MPW, but my 42:10, 1:34:20, suggest I could probably run around 3:25 (which gives me a BQ in 5 years) 18 weeks later, 55 mpw peak, and I cramp up at mile 20.5, and jog/walk into a 3:36.

So, I'm younger, faster at shorter distances, and apparently train a little more (~1500 miles last year), but I'm a minute a mile slower over the marathon than this guy. I didn't run a perfect marathon (execution) as I know happens in the first one, but I have my doubts about a sub 3:15 in the next couple of years.

Realisticly, I'm likely looking at 45 before I qualify (8 years in), unless I'm able to ramp up training without injury.

Nothing makes me think I'm overly talented. But nothing makes me think this guy is more talented from what I've seen.

Either he is way more talented (lots are) or he wasn't willing to put in the time/effort. I'd like to know which it is.

Bailey2005 wrote:

Sigh. OK. Here is the likely outcome of this - and it's not all bad.

As clear as the cheating seems to be, there is not slam dunk evidence sufficient to DQ either Boston or Lehigh.

This is wrong. I've helped stage several races, and know plenty of RDs, and I'm certain all of them would immediately DQ an alleged front-of-the-pack marathoner who shows up in no photos. The Disney folks would have DQed him by page 4 of this thread.

Spreadsheet is up to page 15 of the threads now. Will keep going after lunch. He is still talking on the Dopey Challenge group (I think it's the only place where his posts haven't been deleted) but so far hasn't answered any actual questions. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1s0f2sI8FvoD4nFriEngQQXhwBqYbVLq0V5VjI2ARRp4/edit#gid=0

State by Mike 10 minutes ago on Facebook "FYI. I didn't use my LV time to get into Chicago"

Right. He had GPS and just didn't use it. Because if there's any race distance in which you want to ignore splits, it's the marathon. I could find no record of an official pace group used for Via. And based on his Philly Marathon experience, we know he's not exactly Archimedes when it comes to doing race math in his head:From Runner's World: "In the Philadelphia Marathon race report posted on his now-private blog, Rossi wrote that after the 20-mile mark, “I finally looked at my GPS watch and saw that I was not far from another BQ! Then, around mile 22 I had to use the bathroom…and that crushed any chance of a BQ. Bummer :( ”The splits from Rossi’s Philadelphia race tell a different story. He went through 10K in 51:14 (8:14 pace), halfway in 1:47:08 (8:10 pace overall), and 30K in 2:34:32 (8:17 pace overall), indicating he was never on the 7:50 pace he would need to run a Boston qualifier.He wrote on his blog, “Overall I was happy with my time.”

progman wrote:

Totally makes sense: Guy runs the qualifier of his life for a race he's wanted to run since he was an embryo and refuses to release the GPS data when the legitimacy of his race is called into question.

Oh, wait - he now says his GPS wasn't on for the race (despite the fact he was wearing the watch?).

Totally makes sense: Guy runs the qualifier of his life for a race he's wanted to run since he was an embryo and decides to turn the GPS off on the GPS watch that is on his wrist.

How can anyone question this guy? Sounds legit to me.

Airtrent wrote:

This thread is priceless and has entertained me for days. I have read every single post and my wife thinks I am now more obsessed and crazy than Mike Rossi....

Me too. But then I have been known to read court transcripts for entertainment. Truth can be stranger than fiction.

Bailey2005 wrote:

As clear as the cheating seems to be, there is not slam dunk evidence sufficient to DQ either Boston or Lehigh..

Disagree. I think the Lehigh RD would be totally justified in a DQ just based on the evidence I've seen presented in this thread. Also, keep in mind that they may have access to even more evidence then we have (more photos from the company, local media, video, etc). If he is officially DQed from Lehigh, then his BQ time is gone. Not sure if Boston would feel compelled to take any action at that point since the race is already run and no one suspects he cheated there. If it had come to light before Boston, I'm sure they would have cancelled his registration like the St Louis cheater, but who knows if they will bother to do anything now that the deed is done. I think a Lehigh DQ is a no brainer though.

There is evidence that Mike crossed the starting line and the finish line in Lehigh. However, there is zero evidence that he completed the distance in between those two points. In fact, there is compelling evidence that he did not run the full 26.2 miles. The burden of proof is on Mike to present even one tiny scrap of proof that he did.

Can we refer to this as the "Rossi-gate" scandal of 2015?

easy weeks wrote:

Threads about pro-level dopers are not as interesting. There is not much we can do. However, there is some satisfaction in seeing this make it to many news outlets due to the work done by some here to uncover the truth. Why is it satisfying?

It is satisfying because you like to run around with torches and pitchforks finding bad people to hang. It's a crippling disease of the 1st world, the internet has brought it to dizzying and nauseating heights. Something to be mad about, your Two Minutes Hate.

Whether he deserves it or not, it's not healthy behavior on y'all's part.

Let me add one more. Or, maybe this is part of the extensive data to back up #4.11. Rossi claims his prior performances and training do not reflect his true 3:11 ability because in all prior performance he was always: (a) - injured and/or (b) - didn't try hard.Needless to say, both of these explanations are complete bullocks. It is completely illogical that he would not try in his 20 races, and in fact, his social media posts directly contradict this claim, as he "gives it everything he's got in everything he does". And, injured? Injuries tend to prevent you from racing at all, not consistently slow you down by 10% if you are still able to toe the line and run.Clearly, MR's word cannot be taken seriously with regards to pace or effort; his report from his 3:43 Philly Marathon make that clear when he indicates he was on pace for another BQ until he had to take a potty break, while the actual timing data show that claim to be wildly false.

OneMoreToAdd wrote:

Let me add one more. Or, maybe this is part of the extensive data to back up #4.

11. Rossi claims his prior performances and training do not reflect his true 3:11 ability because in all prior performance he was always: (a) - injured and/or (b) - didn't try hard.

Needless to say, both of these explanations are complete bullocks. It is completely illogical that he would not try in his 20 races, and in fact, his social media posts directly contradict this claim, as he "gives it everything he's got in everything he does".

Actually he contradicted the claim of never racing those races with actual statements on his blog, so it's not only common sense that dictates that he must have raced at least some of those races but his actual words are against him:

"I know a lot of runners dread weight training, but let me tell you it has been a godsend for me. I make sure to do these exercises AFTER my runs and the results have been remarkable. My speed has increased tremendously. I PR'd by 6 minutes in both the half marathon and the Broad Street Run (10 miler), and just last weekend won my age group in a 5 miler."

Source:

6 minute PRs in a half marathon and 10 miler are impressive feats, no doubt, however the resulting PRs were still far cries from indicating a 3:11 marathon.

Bad Wigins wrote:

easy weeks wrote:

Threads about pro-level dopers are not as interesting. There is not much we can do. However, there is some satisfaction in seeing this make it to many news outlets due to the work done by some here to uncover the truth. Why is it satisfying?

It is satisfying because you like to run around with torches and pitchforks finding bad people to hang. It's a crippling disease of the 1st world, the internet has brought it to dizzying and nauseating heights. Something to be mad about, your Two Minutes Hate.

Whether he deserves it or not, it's not healthy behavior on y'all's part.

Hyperbole aside, it's satisfying to see cheaters get their comeuppance. But I don't think there's much hatred here, honestly a lot more pity, as he obviously needs external validation so badly that he's willing to cheat, and lie through his teeth when confronted with evidence of said cheating.

But more satisfying is that the work done on this thread will likely get enough attention that RDs will at least put in moderately more effort to deter/catch cheating. Honestly, I'm surprised that a marathon that the Yasso name is tied to didn't already have timing mats in place.

GregTR wrote:

LegallyCurious wrote:How accurate is Rossi's assertion on the Dopey thread that "I don't have to prove I ran it, they have to prove I didn't?" Anyone know the history of disqualification for implausible performance times and a total absence of photographs on the course? Does this GPS training data he's holding so close to the vest matter at all?

It's not accurate at all. From the Yahoo Article:

Without timing and photographic proof, Brooke said, the onus shifts to the runner to prove they legitimately finished the race.

When I was protesting the cheater in my race, I suggested to the race directors they just look at the GPS data from what the cheater was clearly wearing in her few photos. They told me that the USATF does not consider personal timing devices. So if that's true, and the USATF has not changed their stand on that in the last 2.5 years, whether or not he has GPS data from that day won't matter. He would have to prove it some other way.

Hyperbole aside, it's satisfying to see cheaters get their comeuppance. But I don't think there's much hatred here, honestly a lot more pity, as he obviously needs external validation so badly that he's willing to cheat, and lie through his teeth when confronted with evidence of said cheating.

But more satisfying is that the work done on this thread will likely get enough attention that RDs will at least put in moderately more effort to deter/catch cheating. Honestly, I'm surprised that a marathon that the Yasso name is tied to didn't already have timing mats in place.

Nailed it on both accounts! Well done!