Fla. jogger shoots teen in self defense

coach d wrote:

Baker hit the mugger with 4 shots. One struck in the chest...BUT two struck in the BACK, one in the BUTT.

Shooting someone in the back is NOT justifiable in any stretch. The first shot was self defense. The last three shots are manslaughter at least in my book. And if there is evidence that Baker went out looking for a fight, it's murder 1, period.

I hope the US Attorney gets involved in the case.

So far the state of Florida disagrees with you. Again, the message is, don't go trying to knock people out.

Nowhere did I say the incidents occurred on a college campus. It obviously isn't that dangerous or our murderer wouldn't be out jogging. Shooting someone in the back as they flee doesn't strike me as imminent danger either.

chauncey wrote:

[quote]asdfasdfas wrote:

This was a way overreaction to the threat level. I remember enough incidents in college/right afterwards where I would hate to think of the carnage if every time someone took a swing at someone or pushed them, they got shot 8 times.[quote]

Thankfully we don't set legal policy based on the vibe asdfasdfas got watching fights in college.

This wasn't a college campus. You have no idea what the neighborhood is like or how dangerous it is. It was the middle of the night. It is well established that the attacker was intending to beat and rob Baker. Baker was outnumbered. He had no idea if the attackers were armed or whether or not they intended to kill him. In this case, better safe than sorry, I say. Fortunately for Baker, the state of Florida agrees with me.

1) How is the threat guaranteed to be over? There's no rule that says one punch and that's it.2) The fact that you are referencing a Dirty Harry speech shows that you watch too many movies. You do know that Dirty Harry is a fictional character right? Hell, maybe the shooter could have just said "up up and away" and flown away like Superman...since we're using movies as the basis.3) No evidence that he gave a speech and then shot.4) They may have known each other, but it is unclear if the shooter knew at the time who this was who had hit him...it's the middle of the night.5) NO, you are not allowed to gun down someone who is shooting at an attacker. Neither YOUR life NOR your safety is endangered in that situation...you would face legal problems and likely jail if you did that.Not sure why a couple of you are defending this kid. I agree that it's sad he had to die, but he brought it on himself. If you play with the bull, sometimes you get the horns. Florida law says this is allowed. I agree.

How weird is it that Flagpole is 100% in the right on this thread.

I usually want to punch Flagpole in threads, but he is manning up on this one.

Good job Flagpole Dick, I have to hand it to you.

well said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But there were 3 people on that cool night in Tampa..2 adults and 1 teen.....There were NO RUNNERS present.....Just a 28 year old guy with a GUN getting REVENGE....5 Houses down from his parent's house.....28 year old who lives with mommy and daddy...........

But he was SCARED FOR HIS LIFE or so he says...Funny thing is if he "stopped a mugging OR robbery" wouldn't he be getting a medal?

If it was a mugging why isn't the teen being charged?

No comments from the Baker Household...No RUNNING tips from Tommy "GUNS" Baker .....I wonder why? Could the IRS be coming since he has not WORKED since March 2009?But had 950 dollars on him? Could a civil case be coming?

Tommy Baker's running career stats are

10 runs ......20 miles.....average mile time is 17 minutes 28 seconds...........

plus++++

1 dead 18 year old..............

Prefontaine would be envious!!!!!

WOW WHAT A CAREER! Like you told the police "it is your routine"

hey Tommy are you RUNNING Gasparilla 15 K next month?

And, just to quell the thought, I am AGAINST the death penalty. When you have the time and luxury to adequately judge someone, a life sentence without the possibility of parole seems the right punishment to me. To order a death is so final, and mistakes can be made, and I do believe racism still plays a part in who gets the death penalty.BUT, if you're attacking someone, and the attacked has no idea what the motive is and he has a gun...I'm all for people being able to defend themselves...and you don't fire a gun unless you intend to kill...that's what the police officers say, and I agree.

No Life wrote:

How weird is it that Flagpole is 100% in the right on this thread.

I usually want to punch Flagpole in threads, but he is manning up on this one.

Good job Flagpole Dick, I have to hand it to you.

Well, if you agree with my stance here, then you should reconsider your opinion about my other stances in other threads on other topics, because they are all based on the same couple of things:

1) Personal responsibility

2) Treating others as you would like to be treated

So the mugger kid is held to a level of personal responsibility but the 28year loser living in his parents basement looking for a fight only has to make sure he has a concealed weapon permit? And if so; he can jack off 8 rounds if someone makes him flinch?Can only hope the next time Baker is in this situation the other dude is packing too so we can be rid of two turds....

No Life wrote:

How weird is it that Flagpole is 100% in the right on this thread.

I usually want to punch Flagpole in threads, but he is manning up on this one.

Good job Flagpole Dick, I have to hand it to you.

Well, if you agree with my stance here, then you should reconsider your opinion about my other stances in other threads on other topics, because they are all based on the same couple of things:

1) Personal responsibility

2) Treating others as you would like to be treated[/quote]

The number of shots & the fact that at least one shot was in the back are both utterly irrelevant. It only matters that the shooter was justified in using deadly force. Once we answer that question it matters not whether he fires once, 8 times, or 100 times.

Handguns are generally weak. Most people shot with handguns survive. The shooter might have not even been sure that any of his shots had connected until the 8th shot. It's not like in the movies where a guy who takes a single shot is lifted three feet into the air and then falls flat on his back. There have been some notable cases where guys took numerous rounds from handguns and kept right on doing whatever mischief they were doing.

There is nothing good about this at all.

A young life is cut short.

A parent who obviously was not a good parent is now left with the horror of losing a child, and worse yet, having to bury that child.

All the people, including the shooter need to get on with a real life, adn quit trying to act "gangsta".

It only gets you two things for sure:

Either dead or in jail.

1) The teenager did more than just make him flinch...HE PUNCHED HIM IN THE FACE.2) BOTH of them are held to a level of personal responsibility. The teenager in this exchange didn't do what he should have done, and those of you defending him need to quit with the "kid" stuff. It's the middle of the night. It's unclear if the shooter knew who it was. The 16-year-old wanted to act like a man (a thug man) and so he was dealt with as such.I'm not saying the Baker guy is an angel...pretty much anyone running around at night with a loaded gun will eventually find some trouble, BUT he didn't deserve to be attacked, and he had every right to defend himself. That it ended in the attacker's death is unfortunate, but that KID brought it on himself. HE, and he alone is responsible for this situation.

Good Riddance wrote:

No trigger discipline wrote:

Youre a racist. This was a white man shooting a non white kid.

It is always race to you racist, hate mongerin,g criminal Democrats.

However, to us, decent people, all that matters is that a criminal Democrat is dead and the heroic Republican didn't become another victim, wouldn't matter if the Democrat were white trash and the hero Republican was black.

Why are so many people talking about the shooter being a racist? If anyone was the racist, it would have to be the attacker. Seems like Mr Baker was just defending himself from a hate crime in progress. Shouldn't we be calling him a hero?

I wonder if the bloodlust that drove him to murder the kid is the same motivation that inspired him to seek joining the military...

"Running" at 1:30 AM, dressed in black, with nearly $1000, and a concealed weapon... since when was running synonymous with Hunting

What is the problem that everyone has with running at midnight. I am a middle-aged guy now, so I am usually in bed by midnight, but when I was younger, I used to always do my runs around midnight.

I still wear a black hoody when I run, though.

"its a f***ing clip you dip shit."

A clip is something you put in your hair -- a magazine is something that goes into a weapon. Obviously Festizio knows what he is about.

I think what everyone seems to be forgetting when they categorically state their opinion on this matter is that they were not there. I'm literally not willing to say whether the jogger was right to shoot the attacker without all the evidence, which I do not have.

All I will say is that I would never go running with a gun, i mean seriously, who does this? If I felt that unsafe I would probably not go at all, or at least not at midnight.

I have no strong opinion on this... just been watching the debate. However it is very frustrating that so few of those posting seem to have bothered to read the articles posted on the first page of this thread.

By "Dirty Harry" speech I am sure that the poster was referencing this quote from the article in the 5th post on the 1st page of this thread:

Maybe if this guy didn't have a gun in his pants he could have run away from the situation.

Or maybe he couldn't have since he's a hobby jogger.

1) There are no guarantees in life but if you can shoot the guy 2 times in the back and the butt, I sort of doubt he is attacking you at the time.2) Read the article. "You wanna play games" sounds like a movie quote to me3) Read the article.4) Read the article. They talked for a while before this incident5) What if the attacker is shooting in my direction. AFter all this guy fired 4 shots that missed. Since the friend hadn't done anything wouldn't being get shot at be an instigation?