Official 2018 United Airlines NYC Half Live Discussion Thread

I was think about this dumbassery last night and I was wondering how far into a race do you have to make it for it to be described as "going for it" rather than "going out at too fast". I settled for 3/4 of the race which would put you with 1 lap to go in a mile or between miles 19 and 20 in marathon. Maybe 3/4 isn't far enough though? 7/8 maybe?

Were portapotties really an issue at the start? From the TV coverage it looked like they were actually in the corrals this year, like the Brooklyn half in the past, which makes life easier as long as there are enough.

Not that anyone asked, but I personally skipped this race for the first time in many years - had no interest in going out to Brooklyn at a stupid early time and running up the fdr and into the wind. Can't imagine I'll sign up next year either

Trump2020OP-the real one wrote:

Can we Expect Great Things when Ben eventually makes his full 'thon debut?

Is Chris Derrick update? Doesn't seem to be progressing.

M.A.G.A.

It turns out that Chris Derrick was DESTROYED by Scott Fauble from Flagstaff, Arizona.

It is not a big surprise.

Go Stanford!!!

Yeah, GPS all over the map mile to mile. Some of that is the city, I suspect. And the terrain made it hard to compare mile to mile, but it was weird.

leeeeeeroy wrote:

Were portapotties really an issue at the start? From the TV coverage it looked like they were actually in the corrals this year, like the Brooklyn half in the past, which makes life easier as long as there are enough.

Not that anyone asked, but I personally skipped this race for the first time in many years - had no interest in going out to Brooklyn at a stupid early time and running up the fdr and into the wind. Can't imagine I'll sign up next year either

I looked at the course map and noticed that it went for a couple miles on the expressway, which seems like a terrible idea. I imagine they did that because it was cheaper and easier than winding a course through downtown.

GPS is always an issue when I measure in a city. It can be all over the place. I remember measuring a 5k with two other measurers and this one particular mile was off by nearly 400m when compared to GPS. What was interesting was that all three measurers agreed + the measurement on google earth matched our stuff but my GPS unit was telling me something else.

The course certification for this race is online. You can measure some of the points yourself with google earth and you will come up very close (within a few meters). Don't try measuring the bridge! Measure between the 4 mile mark - which is 15 meters before the edge of a school (you can see it on google earth) to the 8 mile mark (just after turning onto 7th Ave. If you are carefully and cut the tangents, you should come up within 0.01 mile

Thanks for referring me to that excellent resource. I can only conclude that all GPS-related shenanigans were due to building and other urban-type interferences.

tartarm wrote:

wejo wrote:

"Show your plate, show your medal"

I love how into the finishing medals everyone is. How about showing him your $20,000.

How can you not get this? I submit you are out of touch with the average runner. It’s why LR will never bern more that a niche of a niche site.

Your post is fascinating.

+ infinity

Ben True placed 6th at the 2013 World Cross Country Championships (12km) and has a 5000m PR of 13:02.74.

More Strength (Fortius) + More Speed (Citius) = Ben True (Dartmouth) DESTROYS Chris Derrick (Stanford)

leeeeeeroy wrote:

Were portapotties really an issue at the start? From the TV coverage it looked like they were actually in the corrals this year, like the Brooklyn half in the past, which makes life easier as long as there are enough.

Not that anyone asked, but I personally skipped this race for the first time in many years - had no interest in going out to Brooklyn at a stupid early time and running up the fdr and into the wind. Can't imagine I'll sign up next year either

You were smart . Yes, they under estimated the number of toilets -bad . Never try to hold it like I did. You end up make a pit stop . I figured that this would be a chug but the nyrr guys were talking how they cut out Harlem Hill and they expected a tail wind . Was all hype imho . I’ve run almost 20 half thons and this was hands downs the hardest ,

Donyiyo wrote:

anacondarunner wrote:

Salazar has Hasay running the World Half Champs next week, so I'm not that having an "extra week" is one of the reasons why Galen ran in Rome. I mean, last year he raced Prague which was only 2 weeks before Boston I believe. I think they picked Rome for Galen because the course was comparable to Boston and Rupp was long overdue for a fast half time.

Yeah, Galen would have won this one easy today by 1 or even 2 minutes, wouldn’t have cracked 60, but would have had these folks for breakfast.

1) USADA presents strong evidence that all of the Nike Oregon Project runners that received L-carnitine injections from Dr. Brown – Dathan Ritzenhein, Galen Rupp, Tara Edrmann (now Welling), Lindsay Allen, Alvina Begay, and Dawn Grunnagle – committed anti-doping violations

USADA’s logic for this argument is pretty simple. The WADA code limits IV infusions and/or injections to 50 ml over a 6-hour period. USADA argues it’s scientifically impossible to raise your post-infusion L-carnitine levels to over 2,000 umol/L from a starting point of less than 100 umol/L in the span of a treatment that only lasts about an hour without infusing way more than 50 ml.

The conclusion for each runner (except Ritzenhein, about whom they went into much more detail) was damning and basically as follows:

For the reasons set forth above, it appears highly likely that Galen Rupp received an L-carnitine infusion from Dr. Brown in excess of 50 mL in violation of the applicable anti-doping rules and in violation of Dr. Brown’s duty to Galen Rupp not to cause him to violate the rules. USADA’s investigation of Mr. Rupp’s potential violation of sport anti-doping rules is continuing.

For starters, Galen Rupp’s lawyer handed over a worksheet from the pharmacy that prepared Rupp’s IV that the lawyer may have not understood. USADA thinks he thought it vindicated Rupp as he thought it referred to a “45 ml injectable” when in reality it referred to “four (4) 100ml IV infusion bags” each “containg a concentration of 9.67 grams of L-carnitine per 45 milliliters.” They also have evidence that Dr. Brown altered medical records or intentionally withheld information unlawfully to cover his ground and make it seem as if the amount of the infusion was legal.

Additionally, Alberto Salazar appears to have misled people at British Athletics (whom he was advising about giving L-carnitine to Mo Farah) about how much L-carnitine Galen Rupp received.

Athlete Lindsay Allen says Salazar told her about the L-carnitine injections, “we are testing it for USADA”... which was not the case at all.

Nike CEO Mark Parker was kept informed of Alberto Salazar’s L-carnitine discoveries

Previously, it had been reported that Salazar was so excited with gains he thought he saw from the initial L-carnitine test on Steve Magness that he emailed Lance Armstrong his findings. It had not been reported that also on that email was Nike CEO Mark Parker. Salazar also wrote in an email that he was so excited by the initial findings on L-carnitine that he planned on meeting with Parker in-person to discuss them. It is uncertain whether that meeting ever took place. There is no implication that Parker may have known Salazar was committing anti-doping offenses, but this is the first report we have seen that he had active involvement with Salazar’s program.

Did the LetsRun.com investigative doper experts ask Ritzenhein any questions about the USADA investigation into the Nike Oregon Project?

???

Just to play devils advocate...the 10k you are talking about he died and was horrible in... he still finished top 8 and scored for his team and the next year he broke 28 minutes for 10k. So maybe he wasn't as dumb as you're claiming?

very serious question, who was wearing vaporfly for this race

(and equally important who won without?)

I will probably not run this one again, either. It’s not that I mind hills, and I am from northern NY, so I am not surprised by a cold morning in March. Heck, I xc ski and go winter camping.

It’s just hauling out to Brooklyn before dawn (b/c they said leave tons time for the subway) only to stand in the dark, cold, and wind for 1.5 hrs) with no shelter and not enough bathrooms. It took 3 miles for me get feeling back in my toes and fingers.

I can run hills in the cold at the Sleepy Hollow half this coming weekend without the logistical hassle and for a lot less money. NYRR charges a premium. I don’t care about t shirts and medals. I’d rather have a tent/ warming station, enough bathrooms at the start for all that money.

Trump2020OP-the real one wrote:

Can we Expect Great Things when Ben eventually makes his full 'thon debut?

Is Chris Derrick update? Doesn't seem to be progressing.

M.A.G.A.

Derrick did however beat all of the Kenyans, including the US based Kenyans. Can't take almost anything form this race.

Trueman wrote:

Just to play devils advocate...the 10k you are talking about he died and was horrible in... he still finished top 8 and scored for his team and the next year he broke 28 minutes for 10k. So maybe he wasn't as dumb as you're claiming?

Play whatever you want, but it was dumb.

Kithuka went out stupid-fast, like 28-flat pace on a hot and windy night. You probably had to be in 27:40-ish shape to think that was realistic.

All the smarter guys knew they needed to back way off of that.

Ahmed and Kipchirchir elected to ride along, as that was the four who were legit contenders in the race, though that pace was probably too hot for any of them, except perhaps Ches.

The second-tier guys were all smart enough to see it was stupid to follow that pace, and backed off into a chase pack at a much more sane pace of probably closer to 29. (I can't find exact splits, but it was in that area.)

The only one of the second-tier guys who 'heroically' elected to go with the leaders was Parker.

He had done nothing to make anyone think he could run that pace, or stay with those guys to anywhere near the end, and of course he didn't.

He got dropped about halfway, and gradually dropped further and further back, till the chase pack running reasonable splits finally overtook him. He ended up with a ~60 second positive split, while those guys ran fairly even, and blew him away on the last lap.

He forced himself to run in no man's land for half the race, while those guys had the comfort of a steady chase-pack, and ran terribly uneven splits in the process.

If he'd run with them like he should have, he at worst ends up battling Dunbar for 5th. Instead he gets crushed by all three --including Bosshard, who he was certainly fitter than at that point-- and finishes 8th.

It's dumb racing. And it's very similar to what he did at CIM, where he proved he can run 4:56 pace (or something close to that) for 21 miles or so, only to crash to 6:30-ish pace for the last 5, and get passed by like 20 guys.

Neither of these is a 'borderline' case, where he's *close* to holding it, and nearly accomplishes something great.

Both are cases where he's *way* over his head, and anyone watching knows that, and he predictably crashes hard, and runs way slower than he should have.

There's nothing heroic about it. It's just dumb racing. And treating it like it's somehow *admirable* --as so many folks seem to do-- is really dumb, too.

If Stinson had tried to go with Ritz and True today, and then blown up again, and finished at 1:07, that would've been stupid, too.

Instead he ran within himself, held up well, and finished with a very solid performance for the conditions and the course.

Maybe he's learning. Good for him. *That* I applaud.

(And I sincerely hope he runs 1:01 or 2:11 sometime soon.)

wejo wrote:

One of the announcers barely spoke English. But I guess if they race director watched and didn't know English he might not figure that out either ;)

Loving the casual racism from the site owners.

everything you've said in response to my comment has benefitted from the simple fact that hindsight has 20-20 vision. no one knows whether he can hold a given pace until he has tried. the whole point of training is to do something you have never done before, to exceed your limits and expand your possibilities. LRC is, remember, "where dreams become reality." dreams do not become real by sitting in the pack and waiting until you can see the finish line in sight, they become real when you, "boldly go where no man has been before."

I didn't say he was a hero. neither do I "worship" him, nor "deify" him, as you also incorrectly claimed. for a grown up, it is possible for admiration to exist along a spectrum that includes more than the two extremes of wanting to line him up against the wall and shoot him with an AK47 or bow down at his feet and pray. any nine-year-old child of your acquaintance can fill you in on the details of this.

everything isn't always about America. I'm not American, and don't really care that much about the state of American distance running. if Parker Stinson going for it at CIM is the evil that is ruining American distance running then you have more problems than armchair coaches relying on hindsight for the drivel that passes for their opinion.

cheers.

My takeaway from Des and Ritz doing the leading for a large portion of the race.

NEITHER WERE TRYING TO WIN.

Both were simply getting their marathon work in. Neither faded. Des simply didn't try to go the last 5k because she was already at marathon pace. Ritz never tried to kick. You don't kick in a workout.

Both of them jogged through the chute as there was no distress or struggle. Probably did a 5 or 6 mile cool down.

They both looked fine getting their marathon work done. This is how the Hansons always handle this race.

Winstrol.IGF-1.HGH.PRP.Cytomel.Hypocarnitinemia.com wrote:

His brain is the size of an uncooked grain of basmati rice...and he NEVER BROKE 28:00 FOR 10,000m.

27:54.98 Parker Stinson (USA) dob 3-Mar-1992 10rA Palo Alto, CA 2-May-2015

cheers.