People are eager to categorize 800 standouts as either 4/8 or 8/15, but there’s actually no reason someone can’t be equally strong in both (and stronger at 600, 800, 1000). World Athletics gives 1200 points to both 44.7 and 3:33.2 respectively, and that’s a lot like Rudisha was probably capable of at his 2010-2012 best, combining Eliud Kipchoge’s 1500 PB with Kenny Bednarek’s 400 PB to be the fastest 800 guy we’ve ever seen.
Yeah he's neither, but at some point he'll choose to do a double, the question is which one.
800 specialists don't feel the need to double. Rudisha and Kipketer showed that. Just attempting to match their achievements is enough for any 800 runner.
i have no reason to believe cooper would be a much better miler than bryce hoppel, who is an awful miler
One major reason to believe Cooper would be a much better miler than Bryce Hoppel is the simple fact he ran a 4:06 mile in 10th grade last year with little to no focus on the event. He has 2 years to think about approaching the 1500 if he wants to and he'll be 19. In 2032, he'll only be 23 and in the beginning of his athletic prime. A lot can happen between now and then. Clearly he already has the speed to be a world class 1500 runner. Still, at his age it's more important to develop as much speed as he can while he's continuing to grow and mature physically, especially since he operates naturally in that 400/800 zone right now. He could be another Alberto Juantoreana, or he could be another Steve Ovett too, who also had pretty decent speed in his teenage years (though Cooper is scarily faster than he was). I'm gonna wait 4 or 5 years and let him truly develop some proper world class aerobic strength before I absolutely nail him down as a pure 400/800 or 800/1500 guy. We just don't know yet, but he does have all the raw tools to be one of the best milers in the world someday (if he actually cares to want that anytime soon).
Although Ovett won the 400m in the English Schools he always had high level endurance at a young age, and took second in the English Schools x-Country the same year. He also won the English National Junior x-Country Championship at six miles.
There are some overlaps, but I don't see Cooper eventually running 28:16 for 10k on road (at a time when the world record was 27:37) as did Ovett (only three months after setting a world 1500m record).
That was a bit disingenuous on his behalf given that his sole English Schools track victory was in the 3000m. He ran a ton of area 1500m championships as youth and junior too, in fact he was AAA (English) Junior Indoor and outdoor champion at 1500.
In 1976 he ran seven one mile races, as well as several 1500m races. He really focused on the 800m in 1978, and his world-record in the mile in 1979, was just a return to the event. Incidentally, he started 1979 with a win in the 3000m at the AAA indoors.
Rudisha ran wr no pacer in Olympics after rounds with no super shoes
Jakob ran 326 without nearly the same basic speed, 1500m is at the low end of his range and I doubt he can run sub 144
cooper will train in super shoes his whole career, plus there is a good chance shoes could get marginally better and tracks faster as well.
someone eventually is going to take out the 800/1500 world records.
And it’s probably a guy with coopers raw speed
if we must compare then I think coe is a good comparison, he ran 800 and 1500 wr over forty years ago. cooper almost matched coes wr at 16. sub 140/325 is not absurd with his talent level
at 16/17 it would have been crazy to say Jakob runs 717 754 but he did and he never took the 5k like he should have
cooper is a better talent than Jakob better raw speed, not as trained at 17
you can mythologize the wrs all you want but they will go down and it’s going to be someone with coopers raw speed
In 1976 he ran 15 races at 1500m or a mile (seven at a mile) and only four at 800m. Well before he broke the world mile record in 1979.
Interesting fact:
Before breaking his first mile world record in 1979, Sebastian Coe's best mile time was 3:57.7, achieved in 1977. He ran this time in London, having only completed two one-mile races prior to his record-breaking 3:49.0 run on July 17, 1979, in Oslo.
Well, we disagree on his 1500m potential over the next 15mos. I believe 3:34.26 is fairly likely assuming the training is tweaked with that goal in mind. Also, I never mentioned the mile. Not once. As an 800/1000 type guy, the 1500m is very reachable. Many great 800/1000 types bridge up to 1500m. A guy who can get under 1:42.00 (I believe that is coming) should be able to dip under 3:35flat. You may feel differently.
Again, no one is talking about changing events. Lutkenhaus will be an 800 guy primarily. That said, He should get the indoor WR at 1000m and dip under the HSR at 1500m before he graduates in June 2027.
As was previously stated here, Seb Coe rarely ran the 1500, like once a year every year for 4 years before he eventually broke the 1500 WR. Cooper's got a lot of time and upside to be a world class in the mile.
I was inaccurate in my statement here. What I meant to say that I got wrong from an interview with Seb Coe is that he said he had barely run the mile 4 times the year he broke the mile WR the first time he did it (that's a paraphrase of his interview). Records show he only ran two one mile races before he broke the mile WR. At the time, he was only a 3:57 miler.
If he were to run a 3:59:xx mile, or hell, even a 3:54 mile, it would be wildly impressive yet at the same time not even competitive really. I mean Gary Martin has run 6 full seconds faster than that, and all respect to Gary Martin but the two of them are not even approximately the same caliber of athlete. I think a more interesting question is whether he could beat the current male high school student who possesses an Olympic gold medal in his specialty event? I seriously wonder how that would go. I could imagine Quincy bossing Cooper every single time. But I could also imagine it being about dead even, and could even imagine Cooper having a slight edge. That’s a crazy thought really, and is a race I’d love to see.
Expected to see this kind of threads when American are speaking at home:
1) American is the most fierce talent.
2) American expecting everyone else cheating
3) Having a square head reasoning only by y=ax+b
I'm only going to focus on #1. Yes, Cooper Lutkenhaus is the most fierce young talent in the world, as he is the first indoor 800 meter world champion at 17 years old.
The 800 doesn't have the same sizzle as the mile or 1500.
In the future, I would not be surprised if he goes longer for the money.
Based on this thread so far, the debate is whether he could be just as good in the 1500m as in the 800m. If not, there won’t be any money to be made from running the 1500m. His genetic range will make the decision for him as to what distances he should race.
If he were to run a 3:59:xx mile, or hell, even a 3:54 mile, it would be wildly impressive yet at the same time not even competitive really. I mean Gary Martin has run 6 full seconds faster than that, and all respect to Gary Martin but the two of them are not even approximately the same caliber of athlete. I think a more interesting question is whether he could beat the current male high school student who possesses an Olympic gold medal in his specialty event? I seriously wonder how that would go. I could imagine Quincy bossing Cooper every single time. But I could also imagine it being about dead even, and could even imagine Cooper having a slight edge. That’s a crazy thought really, and is a race I’d love to see.
I mean, it is possible that Gary Martin is a higher caliber athlete at the mile distance than Lutkenhaus. Do I believe that? Kinda on the fence, we might never know as Cooper will probably never focus exclusively on the 15/16 to reach his full potential at that distance.
On the topic of the 400 and Quincy Wilson…Quincy has run 44.1 and Cooper has yet to break 46. Is it possible he’s made a huge leap in 400 ability? I don’t think to that extent. I would assume he can go 45 point now, but we will have to wait and see. And even if he did go sub 45, 44.10 is very very fast.
BUT with all that in mind, Lutkenhaus isn’t even finished his junior year. Really is mind boggling.