Why are Americans still masking & why are there still COVID restrictions in place?

You must just truly be an idiot. People stating your overblown numbers are overblown is not denying the virus. People saying the mitigation efforts did more harm than good is not denying the virus. The only thing evident is that you are a delusional idiot with a financial agenda.

Lead Foil Hat wrote:

2600 bro wrote:

Why did places that had even stricter lockdowns have better outcomes than us then? You put forth an impossible-to-prove theory! The side effects of lockdowns made COVID worse but not any other diseases? I think this fall into another convenient post hoc rationalization. I don’t get what’s so hard about just saying COVID was bad, vaccines are ending it. But hey you do you.

Where? Please stop using island nations as proof; take a look at Europe and you hav your answer....it was a mess.

"Restrictions don't work and are actively bad if you remove all the places they did work"

Yawn.[/quote]

Where did they work? Oh, only island nations that closed their borders entirely very early on. Yes, border closures work, this is not proof that the other mitigation efforts did anything. You seem to like to only select outlier data to prove your point when it is generally wrong.[/quote]

So the argument is: "COVID is real, but people wouldn't have died from it at the same rates if we didn't scare people into staying inside?"

I'm not sure I understand.

Sweden left basically everything open and sees a similar IFR to places like the USA, no? Wouldn't that be a test of your theory?

Lead Foil Hat wrote:

Harambe wrote:

Yes, the whole point is that someone who called 500k excess deaths despite aggressive mitigation efforts "overblown" is a denier.

Deniers do all they can to minimize or dismiss the true cost of COVID.

I've said this before but I'll say you're not a denier if you admit:

500k excess deaths is an accurate tabulation of the life-cost of COVID

AND

500k excess deaths is a tragedy that was worthy of trying to mitigate

You must just truly be an idiot. People stating your overblown numbers are overblown is not denying the virus. People saying the mitigation efforts did more harm than good is not denying the virus. The only thing evident is that you are a delusional idiot with a financial agenda.

It's literally denying the cost of COVID.

"COVID killed a lot of people"

"Well, no, your numbers are wrong, if we use my numbers we can justify ignoring it"

You have no evidence the excess death numbers are too high. Your adjustment accounts for at most ~80,000 (and it is an arbitrarily over-reactive adjustment)

So yes, you are labeled: DENIER (sorry)

Harambe wrote:

Lead Foil Hat wrote:

You must just truly be an idiot. People stating your overblown numbers are overblown is not denying the virus. People saying the mitigation efforts did more harm than good is not denying the virus. The only thing evident is that you are a delusional idiot with a financial agenda.

It's literally denying the cost of COVID.

"COVID killed a lot of people"

"Well, no, your numbers are wrong, if we use my numbers we can justify ignoring it"

You have no evidence the excess death numbers are too high. Your adjustment accounts for at most ~80,000 (and it is an arbitrarily over-reactive adjustment)

So yes, you are labeled: DENIER (sorry)

I think you really are just an idiot denying the likelihood that your overblown paranoia and overzealousness contributed to this massive "excess death" death you keep railing about. The number is not a fact , it is an estimate based on assumptions and estimates that were actively skewed to overinflate the numbers exactly at the onset of the "pandemic" You need to perpetuate the lie to cover up the possibility that your attitudes and fear mongering was a huge contributor to your massive death number. You are correct, this pandemic had devastating effects, so much so that we should never listen to the advice of fear mongering idiots to justify deviating from the normal scientifically conventional response of doing very little. Far less people would have died in 2020 had we just ignored people, the media, the politicians, and the funding hungry experts demanding the ridiculous. Trust me, it will never happen again....the people will not be fooled twice into listening to the nonsensical advice of murderers. We have all of these excess deaths to prove they should not be listened to again.

So again, your argument is that the USA's response to COVID drove its IFR and therefore the excess deaths?

Why did Sweden see a similar IFR?

Harambe wrote:

Lead Foil Hat wrote:

Where? Please stop using island nations as proof; take a look at Europe and you hav your answer....it was a mess.

"Restrictions don't work and are actively bad if you remove all the places they did work"

Yawn.

Where did they work? Oh, only island nations that closed their borders entirely very early on. Yes, border closures work, this is not proof that the other mitigation efforts did anything. You seem to like to only select outlier data to prove your point when it is generally wrong.[/quote]

So the argument is: "COVID is real, but people wouldn't have died from it at the same rates if we didn't scare people into staying inside?"

I'm not sure I understand.

Sweden left basically everything open and sees a similar IFR to places like the USA, no? Wouldn't that be a test of your theory?[/quote]

So you admit that doing very little had the same outcome. Less people died in Sweden that many restrictive places and most of the deaths there came after they panicked and began imposing restrictions. SO, Sweden is proof that doing very little results in the same or even better outcomes. Good, I am glad we agree on this. Finally you understand that what you believe is just stupid thinking.

Nonsensical reply. The lockdowns and fear mongering ended up killing lots of people in America via suicide, drug and alcohol abuse, increased poverty, depression, inability to get needed medical treatment for real problems. Etc.

And you are on about IFR?

Sheesh

Lead Foil Hat wrote:

So you admit that doing very little had the same outcome. Less people died in Sweden that many restrictive places and most of the deaths there came after they panicked and began imposing restrictions. SO, Sweden is proof that doing very little results in the same or even better outcomes. Good, I am glad we agree on this. Finally you understand that what you believe is just stupid thinking.

Your argument is that the COVID IFR was so high BECAUSE of the strong responses that countries took.

Sweden, especially in the first wave, saw plenty of death despite doing little.

So clearly the virus is dangerous regardless of the regulatory environment it's in!

Now if you want to start saying the excess deaths were not COVID-caused -- that 'lockdowns' caused them -- that's a different story. Still wrong! But, different from the argument you are making now.

Please clear this up if I'm confused

The Unkle wrote:

Harambe wrote:

So again, your argument is that the USA's response to COVID drove its IFR and therefore the excess deaths?

Why did Sweden see a similar IFR?

Nonsensical reply. The lockdowns and fear mongering ended up killing lots of people in America via suicide, drug and alcohol abuse, increased poverty, depression, inability to get needed medical treatment for real problems. Etc.

And you are on about IFR?

Sheesh

Harambe does not even actually know what IFR means. Just an idiot troll trying to make a buck off of the fear mongering that has kills 100s of thousands this past year; at least he admits the deaths. Also Sweden had a 25% lower death/population rate than the USA, which would have been even lower had they not eventually succumbed to the covid paranoia and implemented restrictions. Even here though, if we had just done what Sweden did Harambe seems to admit we could have saved ~150,000 Americans just by not being so overzealous. It is crazy to think about all of those excess deaths caused by the overzealous and ridiculous OCD response we were pressured into by people like Harambe. Oh well, the blood is on their hands even though they will keep denying it.

Lead Foil Hat wrote:

Harambe does not even actually know what IFR means. Just an idiot troll trying to make a buck off of the fear mongering that has kills 100s of thousands this past year; at least he admits the deaths. Also Sweden had a 25% lower death/population rate than the USA, which would have been even lower had they not eventually succumbed to the covid paranoia and implemented restrictions. Even here though, if we had just done what Sweden did Harambe seems to admit we could have saved ~150,000 Americans just by not being so overzealous. It is crazy to think about all of those excess deaths caused by the overzealous and ridiculous OCD response we were pressured into by people like Harambe. Oh well, the blood is on their hands even though they will keep denying it.

Comparing raw death/population is silly. I could point to Norway which had pretty strict restrictions and excellent results! But I know there are many factors at play!

The point is that there is no obvious association between IFR and mitigation measures. It's a wild hypothesis that seems to stem from

1) Knowing COVID is real

and

2) Trying to find a way to blame something other than COVID, while not looking like a totally looney COVID-denier

The easy solution is just to accept that COVID is deadly on its own...

The easier solution would be for you to accept that your attitude is the prevailing attitude that led to a massive and deadly overzealous response that led to many many more deaths than would have occurred had we done very little other than raise public awareness and encourage people stay home when sick.

I think you are just a confused person in general. There is no way to clear that up other than maybe antibiotics.

Norway did not have very strict restrictions either; I don't know why you keep claiming this. Italy, France, Belgium, the UK....these nations had very strict lockdowns and horrid results. Most liberal cities in the US also did the same with terrible outcomes.

1) Other illnesses are available

2)1940s Baby boomers are a real statistic

Yes the easy solution is to accept that COVID is deadly on its own, but it's ridiculously reductive.

Sweden, especially in the first wave, saw plenty of death despite doing little.

[/quote]

You are wrong here as well. Sweden saw very little deaths during the first wave when they were doing almost nothing. The higher deaths tolls did not pile up until after they started implementing widespread restrictions in the fall. It is interesting though to see how easily you make up your own facts to support your wrong ideas.

Lead Foil Hat wrote:

Norway did not have very strict restrictions either; I don't know why you keep claiming this. Italy, France, Belgium, the UK....these nations had very strict lockdowns and horrid results. Most liberal cities in the US also did the same with terrible outcomes.

And South Dakota? Very few restrictions and terrible outcomes. The list goes on and it's hard to find clear trends as much as you want to claim that restrictions -> deaths.

The point is that your argument of: restrictions causing a compounding effect with COVID leading to dead is false.

Plenty of places with strict lockdowns saw few deaths. See: Australia. They had the virus. They locked down hard. They beat the virus. The didn't see many deaths.

I am not claiming I know the secret sauce of mitigation combinations that would avoid COVID catastrophe! I am claiming that mitigation efforts somehow -worsening- COVID death rates is unsupported by the evidence.

You need a new theory.

Lead Foil Hat wrote:

You are wrong here as well. Sweden saw very little deaths during the first wave when they were doing almost nothing. The higher deaths tolls did not pile up until after they started implementing widespread restrictions in the fall. It is interesting though to see how easily you make up your own facts to support your wrong ideas.

This is wrong:

Sweden saw it's highest peak of excess deaths in the first wave. The two waves were fairly similar in terms of total excess deaths.

The numbers of old people dying is going to increase every year. This is a simple and obvious statistcal inevitability.

This fact is being ignored in the covid hysteria.

Circumspection wrote:

The numbers of old people dying is going to increase every year. This is a simple and obvious statistcal inevitability.

This fact is being ignored in the covid hysteria.

From another LRC poster.

Did everyone in the USA suddenly age in 1 year?