Did Mike Rossi (viral marathon dad) cheat his way into Boston?

aRaceDirector wrote:

Come on already. Leave the RD alone. The Race Director has done all they can do.

The only alleged evidence of cheating, is completely circumstantial in that it is composed of a collection of non-evidence. To DQ a runner on this starts a bad precedent, where the onus is now on the runner to prove they ran the race.

Garmin Files - I have run many races and training runs where my Garmin messed up, and missed splits or been inaccurate. Garmin files can easily be manipulated after the fact too - so it is unreasonable to rely on this as evidence.

Missed Timing Mats - I have run races and have put on races where timing mats haven't triggered. It is rare, but it does happen. In this case. All the timing mats were activated for this runner. It's unfortunate that there was only a starting mat and a finishing mat.

Photos - Yes, I have seen the statistical analysis showing how unlikely it is not to be photographed. But again, it does happen. Bibs can be obscured, and fall off, pinned to the legs, or on the back. I know in Rossi's case it was pinned to his chest.

Appearance - Just because someone doesn't seem sweaty enough, in a picture, after a race is very weak grounds for DQ.

Past Performance - Yes, I use the MacMillan calculator a lot myself, and frankly, my marathon times don't line up with my 5 mile times. It is generally close for most people, but what if no one has a running history, and they have a great race - do we DQ them because their time seems suspicious?

Eyewitness accounts - The RD has claimed that they had no eye witness accounts of suspicious activity.

Racer's account - If I interpret the RD's response correctly, it appears they contacted Rossi to ask him if he ran the route. This was his chance to come clean, the RD could lay out the circumstantial evidence against him, but at the end of the day, if he chooses to lie - we have no solid grounds to discount his story.

Imagine if the next race you ran, you had to:

a) Make sure people saw you at the start, and at least 6 other points around the race.

b) Make sure you were photographed properly, and that the photographer didn't catch you at a moment where you looked suspicious.

c) Make sure that you have a Garmin or other GPS that is 100% working and accurate

d) Pick a race that had intermediate timing mats, and the timing company properly calculated your pace time.

e) Swear on a bible at the end, under threat of internet shaming, that you finished the whole race and that your time was legit.

f) Didn't run a race where you knew somebody else in the race so that it could be inferred that they carried your bib and chip from the start to the finish.

Yes, I know he didn't run 3:11, but you can't DQ someone on suspicion alone.

It's not the Race Director's fault.

PS: 223 Pages and no-one has ripped him yet for being a ginger. shameful.

aRaceDirector wrote:

Come on already. Leave the RD alone. The Race Director has done all they can do.

The only alleged evidence of cheating, is completely circumstantial in that it is composed of a collection of non-evidence. To DQ a runner on this starts a bad precedent, where the onus is now on the runner to prove they ran the race.

Garmin Files - I have run many races and training runs where my Garmin messed up, and missed splits or been inaccurate. Garmin files can easily be manipulated after the fact too - so it is unreasonable to rely on this as evidence.

Missed Timing Mats - I have run races and have put on races where timing mats haven't triggered. It is rare, but it does happen. In this case. All the timing mats were activated for this runner. It's unfortunate that there was only a starting mat and a finishing mat.

Photos - Yes, I have seen the statistical analysis showing how unlikely it is not to be photographed. But again, it does happen. Bibs can be obscured, and fall off, pinned to the legs, or on the back. I know in Rossi's case it was pinned to his chest.

Appearance - Just because someone doesn't seem sweaty enough, in a picture, after a race is very weak grounds for DQ.

Past Performance - Yes, I use the MacMillan calculator a lot myself, and frankly, my marathon times don't line up with my 5 mile times. It is generally close for most people, but what if no one has a running history, and they have a great race - do we DQ them because their time seems suspicious?

Eyewitness accounts - The RD has claimed that they had no eye witness accounts of suspicious activity.

Racer's account - If I interpret the RD's response correctly, it appears they contacted Rossi to ask him if he ran the route. This was his chance to come clean, the RD could lay out the circumstantial evidence against him, but at the end of the day, if he chooses to lie - we have no solid grounds to discount his story.

Imagine if the next race you ran, you had to:

a) Make sure people saw you at the start, and at least 6 other points around the race.

b) Make sure you were photographed properly, and that the photographer didn't catch you at a moment where you looked suspicious.

c) Make sure that you have a Garmin or other GPS that is 100% working and accurate

d) Pick a race that had intermediate timing mats, and the timing company properly calculated your pace time.

e) Swear on a bible at the end, under threat of internet shaming, that you finished the whole race and that your time was legit.

f) Didn't run a race where you knew somebody else in the race so that it could be inferred that they carried your bib and chip from the start to the finish.

It's not the Race Director's fault.

aRaceDirector wrote:

Come on already. Leave the RD alone. The Race Director has done all they can do.

The only alleged evidence of cheating, is completely circumstantial in that it is composed of a collection of non-evidence. To DQ a runner on this starts a bad precedent, where the onus is now on the runner to prove they ran the race.

Garmin Files - I have run many races and training runs where my Garmin messed up, and missed splits or been inaccurate. Garmin files can easily be manipulated after the fact too - so it is unreasonable to rely on this as evidence.

Missed Timing Mats - I have run races and have put on races where timing mats haven't triggered. It is rare, but it does happen. In this case. All the timing mats were activated for this runner. It's unfortunate that there was only a starting mat and a finishing mat.

Photos - Yes, I have seen the statistical analysis showing how unlikely it is not to be photographed. But again, it does happen. Bibs can be obscured, and fall off, pinned to the legs, or on the back. I know in Rossi's case it was pinned to his chest.

Appearance - Just because someone doesn't seem sweaty enough, in a picture, after a race is very weak grounds for DQ.

Past Performance - Yes, I use the MacMillan calculator a lot myself, and frankly, my marathon times don't line up with my 5 mile times. It is generally close for most people, but what if no one has a running history, and they have a great race - do we DQ them because their time seems suspicious?

Eyewitness accounts - The RD has claimed that they had no eye witness accounts of suspicious activity.

Racer's account - If I interpret the RD's response correctly, it appears they contacted Rossi to ask him if he ran the route. This was his chance to come clean, the RD could lay out the circumstantial evidence against him, but at the end of the day, if he chooses to lie - we have no solid grounds to discount his story.

Imagine if the next race you ran, you had to:

a) Make sure people saw you at the start, and at least 6 other points around the race.

b) Make sure you were photographed properly, and that the photographer didn't catch you at a moment where you looked suspicious.

c) Make sure that you have a Garmin or other GPS that is 100% working and accurate

d) Pick a race that had intermediate timing mats, and the timing company properly calculated your pace time.

e) Swear on a bible at the end, under threat of internet shaming, that you finished the whole race and that your time was legit.

f) Didn't run a race where you knew somebody else in the race so that it could be inferred that they carried your bib and chip from the start to the finish.

Yes, I know he didn't run 3:11, but you can't DQ someone on suspicion alone.

It's not the Race Director's fault.

PS: 223 Pages and no-one has ripped him yet for being a ginger. shameful.

aRaceDirector wrote:

Come on already. Leave the RD alone. The Race Director has done all they can do.

The only alleged evidence of cheating, is completely circumstantial in that it is composed of a collection of non-evidence. To DQ a runner on this starts a bad precedent, where the onus is now on the runner to prove they ran the race.

Garmin Files - I have run many races and training runs where my Garmin messed up, and missed splits or been inaccurate. Garmin files can easily be manipulated after the fact too - so it is unreasonable to rely on this as evidence.

Missed Timing Mats - I have run races and have put on races where timing mats haven't triggered. It is rare, but it does happen. In this case. All the timing mats were activated for this runner. It's unfortunate that there was only a starting mat and a finishing mat.

Photos - Yes, I have seen the statistical analysis showing how unlikely it is not to be photographed. But again, it does happen. Bibs can be obscured, and fall off, pinned to the legs, or on the back. I know in Rossi's case it was pinned to his chest.

Appearance - Just because someone doesn't seem sweaty enough, in a picture, after a race is very weak grounds for DQ.

Past Performance - Yes, I use the MacMillan calculator a lot myself, and frankly, my marathon times don't line up with my 5 mile times. It is generally close for most people, but what if no one has a running history, and they have a great race - do we DQ them because their time seems suspicious?

Eyewitness accounts - The RD has claimed that they had no eye witness accounts of suspicious activity.

Racer's account - If I interpret the RD's response correctly, it appears they contacted Rossi to ask him if he ran the route. This was his chance to come clean, the RD could lay out the circumstantial evidence against him, but at the end of the day, if he chooses to lie - we have no solid grounds to discount his story.

I concur wrote:

Well put. This should be pinned.

aRaceDirector wrote:

Come on already. Leave the RD alone. The Race Director has done all they can do.

The only alleged evidence of cheating, is completely circumstantial in that it is composed of a collection of non-evidence. To DQ a runner on this starts a bad precedent, where the onus is now on the runner to prove they ran the race.

Garmin Files - I have run many races and training runs where my Garmin messed up, and missed splits or been inaccurate. Garmin files can easily be manipulated after the fact too - so it is unreasonable to rely on this as evidence.

Missed Timing Mats - I have run races and have put on races where timing mats haven't triggered. It is rare, but it does happen. In this case. All the timing mats were activated for this runner. It's unfortunate that there was only a starting mat and a finishing mat.

Photos - Yes, I have seen the statistical analysis showing how unlikely it is not to be photographed. But again, it does happen. Bibs can be obscured, and fall off, pinned to the legs, or on the back. I know in Rossi's case it was pinned to his chest.

Appearance - Just because someone doesn't seem sweaty enough, in a picture, after a race is very weak grounds for DQ.

Past Performance - Yes, I use the MacMillan calculator a lot myself, and frankly, my marathon times don't line up with my 5 mile times. It is generally close for most people, but what if no one has a running history, and they have a great race - do we DQ them because their time seems suspicious?

Eyewitness accounts - The RD has claimed that they had no eye witness accounts of suspicious activity.

Racer's account - If I interpret the RD's response correctly, it appears they contacted Rossi to ask him if he ran the route. This was his chance to come clean, the RD could lay out the circumstantial evidence against him, but at the end of the day, if he chooses to lie - we have no solid grounds to discount his story.

Imagine if the next race you ran, you had to:

a) Make sure people saw you at the start, and at least 6 other points around the race.

b) Make sure you were photographed properly, and that the photographer didn't catch you at a moment where you looked suspicious.

c) Make sure that you have a Garmin or other GPS that is 100% working and accurate

d) Pick a race that had intermediate timing mats, and the timing company properly calculated your pace time.

e) Swear on a bible at the end, under threat of internet shaming, that you finished the whole race and that your time was legit.

f) Didn't run a race where you knew somebody else in the race so that it could be inferred that they carried your bib and chip from the start to the finish.

It's not the Race Director's fault.

abingtonrunner wrote:

aRaceDirector wrote:

Come on already. Leave the RD alone. The Race Director has done all they can do.

The only alleged evidence of cheating, is completely circumstantial in that it is composed of a collection of non-evidence. To DQ a runner on this starts a bad precedent, where the onus is now on the runner to prove they ran the race.

Garmin Files - I have run many races and training runs where my Garmin messed up, and missed splits or been inaccurate. Garmin files can easily be manipulated after the fact too - so it is unreasonable to rely on this as evidence.

Missed Timing Mats - I have run races and have put on races where timing mats haven't triggered. It is rare, but it does happen. In this case. All the timing mats were activated for this runner. It's unfortunate that there was only a starting mat and a finishing mat.

Photos - Yes, I have seen the statistical analysis showing how unlikely it is not to be photographed. But again, it does happen. Bibs can be obscured, and fall off, pinned to the legs, or on the back. I know in Rossi's case it was pinned to his chest.

Appearance - Just because someone doesn't seem sweaty enough, in a picture, after a race is very weak grounds for DQ.

Past Performance - Yes, I use the MacMillan calculator a lot myself, and frankly, my marathon times don't line up with my 5 mile times. It is generally close for most people, but what if no one has a running history, and they have a great race - do we DQ them because their time seems suspicious?

Eyewitness accounts - The RD has claimed that they had no eye witness accounts of suspicious activity.

Racer's account - If I interpret the RD's response correctly, it appears they contacted Rossi to ask him if he ran the route. This was his chance to come clean, the RD could lay out the circumstantial evidence against him, but at the end of the day, if he chooses to lie - we have no solid grounds to discount his story.

Imagine if the next race you ran, you had to:

a) Make sure people saw you at the start, and at least 6 other points around the race.

b) Make sure you were photographed properly, and that the photographer didn't catch you at a moment where you looked suspicious.

c) Make sure that you have a Garmin or other GPS that is 100% working and accurate

d) Pick a race that had intermediate timing mats, and the timing company properly calculated your pace time.

e) Swear on a bible at the end, under threat of internet shaming, that you finished the whole race and that your time was legit.

f) Didn't run a race where you knew somebody else in the race so that it could be inferred that they carried your bib and chip from the start to the finish.

Yes, I know he didn't run 3:11, but you can't DQ someone on suspicion alone.

It's not the Race Director's fault.

PS: 223 Pages and no-one has ripped him yet for being a ginger. shameful.

The fact that he is the only one out every race participant without a pic or pics on the course, except for the finish line is incontrovertible evidence. It is direct and not circumstantial. Moreover, has anyone (hello LVM Race Director) stated that they saw him on the course, which is different than no one seeing any suspicious activity.

Moreover, what proof do they have, which is what the 18,000 pictures provides, sans timing mats, that he ran the race? DQ's have occurred in other races, some well known, some not so much.

This is a clear cut case of a lack of integrity of those entrusted to run the LVM and should cause great concern by all runners and the Boston Marathon.

aRaceDirector wrote:

Come on already. Leave the RD alone. The Race Director has done all they can do.

The only alleged evidence of cheating, is completely circumstantial in that it is composed of a collection of non-evidence. To DQ a runner on this starts a bad precedent, where the onus is now on the runner to prove they ran the race.

Garmin Files - I have run many races and training runs where my Garmin messed up, and missed splits or been inaccurate. Garmin files can easily be manipulated after the fact too - so it is unreasonable to rely on this as evidence.

Missed Timing Mats - I have run races and have put on races where timing mats haven't triggered. It is rare, but it does happen. In this case. All the timing mats were activated for this runner. It's unfortunate that there was only a starting mat and a finishing mat.

Photos - Yes, I have seen the statistical analysis showing how unlikely it is not to be photographed. But again, it does happen. Bibs can be obscured, and fall off, pinned to the legs, or on the back. I know in Rossi's case it was pinned to his chest.

Appearance - Just because someone doesn't seem sweaty enough, in a picture, after a race is very weak grounds for DQ.

Past Performance - Yes, I use the MacMillan calculator a lot myself, and frankly, my marathon times don't line up with my 5 mile times. It is generally close for most people, but what if no one has a running history, and they have a great race - do we DQ them because their time seems suspicious?

Eyewitness accounts - The RD has claimed that they had no eye witness accounts of suspicious activity.

Racer's account - If I interpret the RD's response correctly, it appears they contacted Rossi to ask him if he ran the route. This was his chance to come clean, the RD could lay out the circumstantial evidence against him, but at the end of the day, if he chooses to lie - we have no solid grounds to discount his story.

Imagine if the next race you ran, you had to:

a) Make sure people saw you at the start, and at least 6 other points around the race.

b) Make sure you were photographed properly, and that the photographer didn't catch you at a moment where you looked suspicious.

c) Make sure that you have a Garmin or other GPS that is 100% working and accurate

d) Pick a race that had intermediate timing mats, and the timing company properly calculated your pace time.

e) Swear on a bible at the end, under threat of internet shaming, that you finished the whole race and that your time was legit.

f) Didn't run a race where you knew somebody else in the race so that it could be inferred that they carried your bib and chip from the start to the finish.

Yes, I know he didn't run 3:11, but you can't DQ someone on suspicion alone.

It's not the Race Director's fault.

PS: 223 Pages and no-one has ripped him yet for being a ginger. shameful.

aRaceDirector wrote:

Imagine if the next race you ran, you had to:

a) Make sure people saw you at the start, and at least 6 other points around the race.

b) Make sure you were photographed properly, and that the photographer didn't catch you at a moment where you looked suspicious.

c) Make sure that you have a Garmin or other GPS that is 100% working and accurate

d) Pick a race that had intermediate timing mats, and the timing company properly calculated your pace time.

e) Swear on a bible at the end, under threat of internet shaming, that you finished the whole race and that your time was legit.

f) Didn't run a race where you knew somebody else in the race so that it could be inferred that they carried your bib and chip from the start to the finish.

Yes, I know he didn't run 3:11, but you can't DQ someone on suspicion alone.