Y'all need to read your Tim Noakes Lore of Running chapter on heat dissipation.
From a physiological standpoint, yes, Tola could have run faster with more favorable weather. I don't know about a 2:01:XX, but faster for sure.
I use the chart below to factor in temp/dew point:
http://maximumperformancerunning.blogspot.com/2013/07/temperature-dew-point.html
row row rowbury your boat wrote:
People are obsessed with temperature in the marathon. Smh.
Err, yes, amongst other things, and with good reason, but you're not, I'm happy for you.
Y'all wrote:
Y'all need to read your Tim Noakes Lore of Running chapter on heat dissipation.
Ha, what would he know? I'll listen to malmo over Noakes any day.
This.
NOP Skeptic wrote:
malmo wrote:I don't think you're going to get this, I don't know if you are even capable of understanding what should be junior high science, but I'll try.
Temperature is not a fungible metric. 69 degrees here is not the same as 69 degrees there, or over there. That seemingly precise number isn't so precise at all. When the weather service reports temperature it is an "in the shade" measurement. 69 in the shade is quite different than 69 in the yard with the sun directly overhead, which is different than 69 on a concrete sidewalk, and even more different than 69 on an asphalt street. You already know this. The ground level ambient temperature on a sunny day is going to be much higher than that 69 degrees that the weather service is reporting. If is is cloudy then 69 degrees doesn't feel bad -- even at noon.
The Sun's altitude makes a huge difference in the ground level ambient temperature vs the reported temperature. At sunrise the Sun's radiant energy hasn't yet had time to amplify at ground level, so 69 is 69, just as the weather service told you. But at noon the ambient temperatures on a sunny day will probably be 20 degrees higher.
Boston Marathon used to start at noon. The NYC Marathon used to start at 10:30. This went on for decades until the slow-learning Einstein's finally realized that the runners were screwed on sunny days, so they eventually caught on and moved their starting times earlier. Now it's not unusual to see 8 am starting times. Berlin is 9am. Dubai is 6:30, a half hour before sunrise.
Running a marathon at 6:30 in Dubai, temperature 69, dew point 59 is not a problem at all, as was clearly demonstrated. Understand yet?
Remember the Golden League 5000 at Doha has been won in 12:50 when it was 90 degrees on the track. How come? 90 at 9pm isn't the same as 90 at noon...that's how.
Malmo, no one is denying your science. Youre right, just the temperature isn't going to tell you the whole story. The point is, in no part of the world, at any time of the day, 69 degrees and a 59 dew point is still no good marathon weather at all. As evident by most of the slow times. The optimal weather for a marathon is in the lower 40's. There's no other factors that can justify 69 degrees not being terrible.
Ha, what would he know? wrote:
Y'all wrote:Y'all need to read your Tim Noakes Lore of Running chapter on heat dissipation.
Ha, what would he know? I'll listen to malmo over Noakes any day.
On second thoughts...
It was a 2:04:11 quality performance. That was of the very highest quality on this day for this runner on this course in this race,
That is of very high quality but over a minute off the quality of the current world record.
There are so many variables that can influence times and performance that you can not fully account for all of them.
Pacing, shoe weight, prize money, competition, pride, hate, yesterday's lunch, the color of his singlet, his mother's muscle fibers, the old toe injury, etc.
Tergat might believe it was of record quality.
Tola might believe the same.
Kipsang and Kimetto would disagree.
Running performances are quantitatively measured by precise methods of timing. It is easy to judge the relative quality of the performance.
Lets not get too wrapped up in trying to figure out and compare different times for different races by different people.
Nothing personal, but I believe such comparative speculation is more relevant on the basketball and football boards.
Tola lost 30-45s due to the weather.
Y'all wrote:
I use the chart below to factor in temp/dew point:
dew point does not matter unless you rely on sweat for cooling, which you don't if you're from a hot climate and are skinny.
Bad Wigins wrote:
Y'all wrote:I use the chart below to factor in temp/dew point:
dew point does not matter unless you rely on sweat for cooling, which you don't if you're from a hot climate and are skinny.
Lolz
Wowzers wrote:
Bad Wigins wrote:dew point does not matter unless you rely on sweat for cooling, which you don't if you're from a hot climate and are skinny.
Lolz
LOL X 10 - We have a winner!! And I love the 'just open your hands dummy & you'll be fine' thang. If only Shalane would have opened her hands a bit more during the Trials,
malmo wrote:
kmaclam wrote:Huh??? That's fully 20 degrees warmer than optimal temp of 49.
I don't think you're going to get this, I don't know if you are even capable of understanding what should be junior high science, but I'll try.
Temperature is not a fungible metric. 69 degrees here is not the same as 69 degrees there, or over there. That seemingly precise number isn't so precise at all. When the weather service reports temperature it is an "in the shade" measurement. 69 in the shade is quite different than 69 in the yard with the sun directly overhead, which is different than 69 on a concrete sidewalk, and even more different than 69 on an asphalt street. You already know this. The ground level ambient temperature on a sunny day is going to be much higher than that 69 degrees that the weather service is reporting. If is is cloudy then 69 degrees doesn't feel bad -- even at noon.
The Sun's altitude makes a huge difference in the ground level ambient temperature vs the reported temperature. At sunrise the Sun's radiant energy hasn't yet had time to amplify at ground level, so 69 is 69, just as the weather service told you. But at noon the ambient temperatures on a sunny day will probably be 20 degrees higher.
Boston Marathon used to start at noon. The NYC Marathon used to start at 10:30. This went on for decades until the slow-learning Einstein's finally realized that the runners were screwed on sunny days, so they eventually caught on and moved their starting times earlier. Now it's not unusual to see 8 am starting times. Berlin is 9am. Dubai is 6:30, a half hour before sunrise.
Running a marathon at 6:30 in Dubai, temperature 69, dew point 59 is not a problem at all, as was clearly demonstrated. Understand yet?
Remember the Golden League 5000 at Doha has been won in 12:50 when it was 90 degrees on the track. How come? 90 at 9pm isn't the same as 90 at noon...that's how.
The main reason they start it earlier is because it's cooler even in the shade.
The fact remains the weather in Dubai was not ideal for marathon running
Bad Wigins wrote:
Y'all wrote:I use the chart below to factor in temp/dew point:
dew point does not matter unless you rely on sweat for cooling, which you don't if you're from a hot climate and are skinny.
LOL!
I suppose people from LDCs don't sweat either? Or those that attend church on sundays?
