This. Rupp's HR never went ABOVE 150. This does not mean he ran the entire run at 149 bpm and his heart rate never moved. He could have started the run at 138-142 bpm and towards the end it crept up to 150 bpm as fatigue/dehydration/etc set in.
A Max HR of 175 gives you a workout between 80-85% (140-150bpm) of Max HR. A totally standard workout that almost all professional distance runners do.
Flymo wrote:
Look at Chris froome for instance....
Don't do that. There's no comparison to clean athletes to be made there. I'm not saying NOP is clean.
Salazar has so many credibility problems that I'd not trust him to tell me the weather outside without checking myself.
Thanks for the info, rojo. This is very eye opening information.
People on this site are so uneducated in the sport. There is nothing amazing about this workout at that HR.
ya, rupp looks like he can run 204. but you have to bring it on the day.
that is the problem with the marathon.
you run 20 miles 2 weeks out at a super pace, then come race day, the gods say FU. and you are hurting 12 miles in.
Letsrun, can you find out his workout after the half marathon in December.
This sounds like a troll, but I saw him still running at like 2pm in the afternoon that day. It was way in the suburbs.
Maybe it was just a cooldown or they have some new breakthru marathon training. Doing a long run after a hard half-marathon?
If his max HR is 176, then 150 is 85% of max HR.
85% of max HR is a good baseline for a sustainable high-end aerobic pace.
Since it's hard to believe that his max HR is only 176, the 150 figure does indeed suggest that he's amazingly fit. If his max HR is 200, 4:52 pace is his 75% pace: a middle of the road EZ pace, neither recovery nor high-end.
If his max HR is 190, 150 is just under 80%. That's a more solid aerobic pace, but it's definitely a notch or two above high-end aerobic.
So yes: 150 is meaningless without knowing his max HR.
KudzuRunner wrote:
Since it's hard to believe that his max HR is only 176,
Actually it's not, max HR does not follow the "formula" in many cases.
That's exactly what I was thinking. There's no way at his age that his max is below 180 and it's most likely in the 190 range, which, like you said, is under 80% of his maxHR.
So yes, that is pretty crazy impressive..... though, why do a 20 mile endurance run as a "test" run? Wouldn't an 82-84% of maxHR be better as it would better mimic the fueling requirements of a marathon while not dipping into the AT hr's of 85-87% where he would need to be efficient at using lactate as fuel (see Canova) and risk breaking himself down? Maybe he stuck with an 'endurance' effort purely for strength reasons and AlSal is leaving marathon specific workouts for later in Rupp's career....?
Thing is, if 4:52 pace is in the 75-78% of his maxHR range, then AlSale is being conservative saying "Rupp can do 2:05 someday."
I for one, though, trust in Kara Goucher's accusations and don't give in to the misogynistic perception of her associated with her taking a stand; that same misogynistic perception is what discredited Betsy Andreu for so long. Her voice was stifled when she had been telling the truth the entire time. I equate Kara's stance as parallel to Betsy's.
Kevin52 wrote:
KudzuRunner wrote:Since it's hard to believe that his max HR is only 176,
Actually it's not, max HR does not follow the "formula" in many cases.
Actually it is....you have to be nuts to think otherwise.
kjc wrote:
People on this site are so uneducated in the sport. There is nothing amazing about this workout at that HR.
Other people who are uneducated in the sport and think that workout at that HR is remarkable: Craig Masback, Alberto Salazar.
Didn't Hannibal Lecter stay under 150 while he escaped from jail and ate someone's face?
Kevin52 wrote:
KudzuRunner wrote:Since it's hard to believe that his max HR is only 176,
Actually it's not, max HR does not follow the "formula" in many cases.
I'm quite aware of that. At age 50, my max HR was still 200--way above the several formulas that are out there. The formulas are utterly useless: you and I agree on that.
But I still have a hard time believing that a young man his age would have a max HR that low.
Still, as I said in the final line of my post, we can speculate all we want and it just doesn't mean anything until we actually know his max HR. I believe that you and I agree on that, too.
Rupp's years of using testosterone paid off eh?
Remember he has been implicated by an NOP insider of using PEDs. He is almost definitely dirty.
Kevin52 wrote:
KudzuRunner wrote:Since it's hard to believe that his max HR is only 176,
Actually it's not, max HR does not follow the "formula" in many cases.
More than many cases. "formula" is a public health estimation that is frequently just plain wrong even for a consistent weekend warrior.
The best indicator of his potential so far is his 10000. He should be at least in 2:05 (Berlin) shape right now and capable of sub-2:04 eventually. Unless his 26:44 was doped and he is clean from now on.
two things. yes, not possible for his max HR to be much under 185-190. 2, betsy actually saw and hear things that were AGAINST the rules. Kara "saw" or "heard" stuff that was potentially unethical, no doubt- but has yet to be proven to be against the rules. the part about testing the T on his son is pretty damning, no question, but there's yet to be a strong smoking gun. this lack of a smoking gun does nothing but hurt KG's credibility (and everyone else associated). I actually think there's a strong chance that AS might be playing dirty but until there's some actionable evidence, ppl should probably just STFU unless they are pining away for the chance to look like blowhards. Again, I think there's agood chance he's playing past the grey line, but somehow he's doing it without giving up a smoking gun. until he really flubs it up, don't try to pretend you have a smoking gun, if you really don't.
yeahIagreewiththat wrote:
That's exactly what I was thinking. There's no way at his age that his max is below 180 and it's most likely in the 190 range, which, like you said, is under 80% of his maxHR.
I for one, though, trust in Kara Goucher's accusations and don't give in to the misogynistic perception of her associated with her taking a stand; that same misogynistic perception is what discredited Betsy Andreu for so long. Her voice was stifled when she had been telling the truth the entire time. I equate Kara's stance as parallel to Betsy's.
KudzuRunner wrote:
I'm quite aware of that. At age 50, my max HR was still 200--way above the several formulas that are out there. The formulas are utterly useless: you and I agree on that.
But I still have a hard time believing that a young man his age would have a max HR that low.
I once knew a pair of 4:01 milers in their early 20s. One had a max HR close to 210, the other about 170.
Some good athletes do have low max HR.
Yeah, but did he look relaxed ?
Considering that only 2 US runners have run faster than that pace for the marathon, "shirley," you jest. If you have any other HR data for other elites (especially Kenyans) running >=20 miles at faster than 2:08 marathon pace, then please provide it.
