Footlocker is a joke!!!

OK I just wasted an hour "watching" Footlocker, by which I mean watching a grey blob or a bunch of random crap other than the races. I guess they couldn't find a 12 year old with a smartphone to help them out with the broadcast. If you want to call it that.

sc42 wrote:

OK I just wasted an hour "watching" Footlocker, by which I mean watching a grey blob or a bunch of random crap other than the races. I guess they couldn't find a 12 year old with a smartphone to help them out with the broadcast. If you want to call it that.

See, I told you all Footlocker is a joke, what kind of championship has a live stream that bad.

cantlogin wrote:

I always recommend athletes choose Footlocker. It's not even a close call. That may change some day. The only reason I could think to choose NXN is my athlete this year would have placed higher at NXN than she will at Footlocker. All things considered, that's not worth the switch.

Do you still believe that?

FLN is more of a vacation, I agree with you, but the race aspect at NXN has usually been pretty similar to that of FLN. Some years, NXN has had the better fields, and some years FLN has. This year, it seems like the NXN girls and FLN boys were stronger, but a far bigger difference on the girls side than the guys.

I absolutely believe that. I think Foot Locker was far stronger up front than NXN and about even at 25. I know this can be done on both sides, but when was the last time Lawson lost to Chmiel.

Oh? wrote:

cantlogin wrote:

I always recommend athletes choose Footlocker. It's not even a close call. That may change some day. The only reason I could think to choose NXN is my athlete this year would have placed higher at NXN than she will at Footlocker. All things considered, that's not worth the switch.

Do you still believe that?

FLN is more of a vacation, I agree with you, but the race aspect at NXN has usually been pretty similar to that of FLN. Some years, NXN has had the better fields, and some years FLN has. This year, it seems like the NXN girls and FLN boys were stronger, but a far bigger difference on the girls side than the guys.

XC is not a major sport.

cantlogin wrote:

I absolutely believe that. I think Foot Locker was far stronger up front than NXN and about even at 25. I know this can be done on both sides, but when was the last time Lawson lost to Chmiel.

That's one example between two athletes. Looking at the results, it would seem like Chmiel ran well at NXN while Lawson didn't run that well at FLN. Meylan had Lawson projected at #7 (#6 if you discount Annie Hill, who had her fall at FLW last week and might have been a little injured) and she finished #11; Meylan had Chmiel projected at #8 and she finished #4. Or, to put it another way, Lawson got beat by 3 runners that ran both races, while Chmiel lost to none. In fact, of the five girls that ran both races, all but one placed at least 3 places better at FLN than at NXN (Leinheiser being the exception, placing #8 at FLN and #7 at NXN).

And now that the races are over, does anyone really believe that Rainsberger isn't the top runner this year?

cantlogin wrote:

So you want to use Meylan. That's cool. FL 1-2 faster than NXN 1 - which should answer your question about Rainsberger being the best. FL #4 faster than NXN #2. So up front at least, Meylan says FL more competitive. After that it gets a little more complicated with a race of 40 having a different flavor than a race of hundreds. Just remember that according to Meylan, A LOT of girls at Footlocker had really bad days today for them all to drop 5+ points between their seasonal races and today. But yeah, if you wanted to sat NXN deeper through 20, that's fair. To say undoubtedly much deeper, I don't think the statistics back it up.

I was using Meylan's projections of New York individuals as one of multiple reference points to support the idea that Lawson didn't have as good a race at Footlocker as expected unlike Chmiel did at NXN.

Meylan always has Footlocker rated higher, in part because it is a smaller field.

In my opinion, Footlocker had the stronger #2, #3 and #4 finishers. However, even that is debateable, as the #4 finisher at Footlocker, Judy Pendergast, ran at NXN and fell off late because the leaders were pushing her too much (NXN #2, Ella Donaghu, ended up beating her by 10 seconds). That didn't happen as much at Footlocker - another reason to suggest that Rainsberger was the top athlete this year.

Beyond the top four, I think NXN was clearly stronger on the girls side.

To clarify, this would be my Top 5/6 based on FLN and NXN:

1. Katie Rainsberg CO - NXN #1

2. Weini Kelati VA - FLN #1

3. Maryjeanne Gilbert IL - FLN #2

4. Nevada Mareno NC - FLN #3

5/6. Ella Donaghu OR - NXN #2

5/6. Judy Pendergast IL - FLN #4

had Annie Hill been 100%, I think Footlocker would have had 5 of the top 7 girls. Beyond those, though, it was a swarm of NXN athletes where there wasn't much difference between NXN #3-21 and FLN #5-8. NXN had a pack at that level, while FLN did not. Both races had athletes with off races, but beyond the top 3 athletes the field was clearly much stronger at NXN.

Oh? wrote:

Beyond those, though, it was a swarm of NXN athletes where there wasn't much difference between NXN #3-21 and FLN #5-8. NXN had a pack at that level, while FLN did not. Both races had athletes with off races, but beyond the top 3 athletes the field was clearly much stronger at NXN.

I didn't watch NXN but part of the reason you didn't have a big pack at FL was because of how aggressive Kelati went out, the field was strung out before they made it to the mile mark.

cantlogin wrote:

I absolutely believe that. I think Foot Locker was far stronger up front than NXN and about even at 25. I know this can be done on both sides, but when was the last time Lawson lost to Chmiel.

With the exception of Hunter, it’s difficult to claim that FL was deeper than NXN. And Rainsberger’s performance certainly trumped Ketati's in my opinion. Below is a list of athletes who ran both (my apologies if I left anyone off).

From NXN to FL:

Veatch 2nd 3rd

Roberts 11th 6th

Hirsch 9th 9th

Gessner 8th 11th

Davis 22nd 13th

Brown 14th 16th

Pendergrast 8th 4th

Troy 12th 7th

Leinheiser 7th 8th

Jenks 25th 16th

Gray 21st 18th

Interesting to note that 4 FL runners from Utah didn’t qualify for NXN. Here are their places at the NXN SW Regional meet and FL finals,

Bielaczyc 8th to 4th

Arnell 20th to 34th

Hoj 11th to 24th

Hunter 10th to 31st

And I have not cross referenced results, but with the exception of Rocha, I heard most of the top CA runners chose NXN.

I think in the near future the top talent will be spread out between the two races as it was this fall. NXN changing courses was a good move on their part, but FL still has a 35+ year history to fall back on. Nothing wrong with both events co-existing.

Having been to both events multiple times here's my thoughts.

- NXN's organization/itinerary is way more professional than FL's. The kids always know what they are supposed to be doing and where to be. They are not allowed to go roam the streets alone like FL let them.

- NXN feels current while you are there, and the kids feel like rockstars. The presentations at Nike are in a real theater with awesome lighting, sound system, and playing songs that are current. FL hosts their presentations in an old banquet hall with poor lighting and plays cliche songs like Bruce Springsteins "born to run" that makes it feel dated.

- FL feels like the same people have been running it since it's inception and it shows.

- NXN is held on a course and environment that suits those used to running on a sloppy course in cold and wet weather. Individual results can vary widely due to the large field size of high quality athletes.

- FL is held on a course and environment that doesn't favor anybody. Additionally, it suits the strongest athletes because the field size is so small that they aren't forced to get out extremely fast to stay out of trouble. Drew Hunter could have gone through the mile in last place and still won the race. That couldn't have happened at NXN.

- NXN feels like they are pitching Nike to the athletes HARD. It was a great event, but the ulterior motives of making money and attracting top athletes in the future seem obvious.

- FL is not pitching Footlocker or Asics almost at all. It's a feeling of being all about the kids, not the companies.

They both have upsides and downsides from an adult's perspective, but there can be no doubt NXN is what most kids are excited about, for better or worse.

7.5/10

Not original, but lots of serious responses

Just an FYI- Acording to Tullyrunners.com, Weini's performance trumped anything Rainsberger did this year with a speed rating of 163 to 161.

Also to note, Weini did not run at 100%. She had some major pain and swelling in her left lower leg, causing her sleepless nights last week. If you watch her first trip down the hill it is clear. While in san Diego, she was in the hot tub soaking her leg before every run and spent most of Thur/Fri in her room with her leg propped up and icing it.

Either way, both runners are great and have very bright future. Hopefully they will meet sometime down the road so we can see!

Also noticed she raced in trainers

Baffled wrote:

Just an FYI- Acording to Tullyrunners.com, Weini's performance trumped anything Rainsberger did this year with a speed rating of 163 to 161.

Also to note, Weini did not run at 100%. She had some major pain and swelling in her left lower leg, causing her sleepless nights last week. If you watch her first trip down the hill it is clear. While in san Diego, she was in the hot tub soaking her leg before every run and spent most of Thur/Fri in her room with her leg propped up and icing it.

Either way, both runners are great and have very bright future. Hopefully they will meet sometime down the road so we can see!

At this point in the season almost nobody is 100%.

I agree, however she could not walk without a limp Tuesday. It was most certainly more than aches and pains.