What an amazing race 12:41.73 DEAD HEAT?! between Kejelcha and Kiplimo

code5800 wrote:

Impala31 wrote:

So your logic is that the WR holder in both the 5k and 10k could not stand a chance if the pace was faster?

None of those who raced both the 10k and the 5k in Eugene performed well in the 5k : cheptegei 1st/9th, Barega 5th/12th, Fisher 4th/6th. The most likely factor is fatigue (especially with the hot weather we saw) with 3 5k/10k races in a week.

Look, Cookiecake.

I just think it's inaccurate to claim that a guy like Cheptegei, with very few credentials outside of his aided World Records, is the 'GOAT of Distance Running' . He has not won a race this season so far.

His 2022 campaign was weak. He won the Pre Classic in the 5k with no competition in 12:57, and lost his two 5ks afterward.

He only raced the 10,000m once and skipped out on the diamond league. He raced two 10km road races in March and December with his 26:49 in Cannes having no competition (He was over a minute ahead of second place)

His 2021 campaign was also weak and non-competitive. His only real major victories was his 5000m Gold in Tokyo and the Two Mile in Pre Classic. and the rest were either Time trials and Meets that didn't matter (Also, he lost to Jakob by 6 seconds in June while placing 6th). Ended his season in Tokyo.

2020 was COVID - his Three time trial records and getting upset at the Half Marathon Championships.

Not to bore you longer than I have but, it seems for a World Record Holder and Olympic/World Champion he likes to dodge major races (Like the Diamond League) and major competition because when he does, he gets beat. Bekele, Gebrselassie, or even Zersenay were never this mediocre and always raced where it mattered!

I guess that's what happens when Supershoes, Wavelights, and Bouncy tracks give you a false sense of Running Dominance.

code5800 wrote:

Impala31 wrote:

So your logic is that the WR holder in both the 5k and 10k could not stand a chance if the pace was faster?

None of those who raced both the 10k and the 5k in Eugene performed well in the 5k : cheptegei 1st/9th, Barega 5th/12th, Fisher 4th/6th. The most likely factor is fatigue (especially with the hot weather we saw) with 3 5k/10k races in a week.

Look, Cookiecake.

I just think it's inaccurate to claim that a guy like Cheptegei, with very few credentials outside of his aided World Records, is the 'GOAT of Distance Running' . He has not won a race this season so far.

His 2022 campaign was weak. He won the Pre Classic in the 5k with no competition in 12:57, and lost his two 5ks afterward.

He only raced the 10,000m once and skipped out on the diamond league. He raced two 10km road races in March and December with his 26:49 in Cannes having no competition (He was over a minute ahead of second place)

His 2021 campaign was also weak and non-competitive. His only real major victories was his 5000m Gold in Tokyo and the Two Mile in Pre Classic. and the rest were either Time trials and Meets that didn't matter (Also, he lost to Jakob by 6 seconds in June while placing 6th). Ended his season in Tokyo.

2020 was COVID - his Three time trial records and getting upset at the Half Marathon Championships.

Not to bore you longer than I have but, it seems for a World Record Holder and Olympic/World Champion he likes to dodge major races (Like the Diamond League) and major competition because when he does, he gets beat. Bekele, Gebrselassie, or even Zersenay were never this mediocre and always raced where it mattered!

I guess that's what happens when Supershoes, Wavelights, and Bouncy tracks give you a false sense of Running Dominance.

code5800 wrote:

Look, Cookiecake.

I just think it's inaccurate to claim that a guy like Cheptegei, with very few credentials outside of his aided World Records, is the 'GOAT of Distance Running' . He has not won a race this season so far.

His 2022 campaign was weak. He won the Pre Classic in the 5k with no competition in 12:57, and lost his two 5ks afterward.

He only raced the 10,000m once and skipped out on the diamond league. He raced two 10km road races in March and December with his 26:49 in Cannes having no competition (He was over a minute ahead of second place)

His 2021 campaign was also weak and non-competitive. His only real major victories was his 5000m Gold in Tokyo and the Two Mile in Pre Classic. and the rest were either Time trials and Meets that didn't matter (Also, he lost to Jakob by 6 seconds in June while placing 6th). Ended his season in Tokyo.

2020 was COVID - his Three time trial records and getting upset at the Half Marathon Championships.

Not to bore you longer than I have but, it seems for a World Record Holder and Olympic/World Champion he likes to dodge major races (Like the Diamond League) and major competition because when he does, he gets beat. Bekele, Gebrselassie, or even Zersenay were never this mediocre and always raced where it mattered!

I guess that's what happens when Supershoes, Wavelights, and Bouncy tracks give you a false sense of Running Dominance.

Guunnar wrote:

no chance there wrote:

Did you even watch his world championship 5k? He EASILY ran a 26 last 200 while SIGNIFICANTLY slowing down the last 50 meters.

Yes it was a slower race but he has shown his gear change is way better than Kiplimo and Kejelcha.

Jakob easily wins that race today.

OK there comes a point where you have to understand what you’re saying, and since you obviously don’t grasp it, and JWH is trying to get it through your thick head, I will offer to dumb it down for you:

The Oslo 5000m was won in 12:41.73, a mere 6.37 seconds off the world record, and maybe not run ideally in terms of allocating resources efficiently to achieve the fastest time, and you are trying to tell us that Jakob could have won it EASILY?
Only 4 men in history have run faster than what you saw today, and they are Joshua Cheptegei, and 3 of the greatest distance runners who have ever lived: Kenenisa Bekele, Haile Gebrselassie and Daniel Komen, and you want to tell us that Jakob could have won it easily?

Jakob would have been hanging on for dear life, and yes, Jakob might have won it, but he would have been digging about as deep as he could go. Jacob Kiplimo is a generational talent, the likes of which Jakob cannot defeat on talent, and at 5000m they are too close to call. Remember that although Kejelcha took over late, it was Kiplimo who really made it happen, and it is Kiplimo who is an even match for Jakob at 5000m, and a better runner than Jakob at distances above 5000m. Show some respect, and never utter such nonsense again.

bet on it wrote:

Guunnar wrote:

OK there comes a point where you have to understand what you’re saying, and since you obviously don’t grasp it, and JWH is trying to get it through your thick head, I will offer to dumb it down for you:

The Oslo 5000m was won in 12:41.73, a mere 6.37 seconds off the world record, and maybe not run ideally in terms of allocating resources efficiently to achieve the fastest time, and you are trying to tell us that Jakob could have won it EASILY?
Only 4 men in history have run faster than what you saw today, and they are Joshua Cheptegei, and 3 of the greatest distance runners who have ever lived: Kenenisa Bekele, Haile Gebrselassie and Daniel Komen, and you want to tell us that Jakob could have won it easily?

Jakob would have been hanging on for dear life, and yes, Jakob might have won it, but he would have been digging about as deep as he could go. Jacob Kiplimo is a generational talent, the likes of which Jakob cannot defeat on talent, and at 5000m they are too close to call. Remember that although Kejelcha took over late, it was Kiplimo who really made it happen, and it is Kiplimo who is an even match for Jakob at 5000m, and a better runner than Jakob at distances above 5000m. Show some respect, and never utter such nonsense again.

Komen, the guy whose record Jakob broke by 4 seconds?

Did you watch Jakob's 12:48 in 2021? He was cruising easily at that pace, then dropped everyone easily the last 100m and still slowed down to celebrate before the finish.

He's only gotten way faster since then. He averaged under 59 for a Two Mile race. Running 62s for a 5k wouldn't even break a sweat.

Impala31 wrote:

The discussion is not about comparing Cheptegei to Bekele or Geb. it's about debating Cheptegei ability to win or medal in a fast championship race. Let's see your arguments :

1) Cheptegei is not the GOAT. Nobody claimed here that Cheptegei is the GOAT and that is not what the discussion is about. Off topic

2) He doesn't race often. How the fact that he doesn't race often correlates with his ability to sustain a faster pace in a championship? Off topic

3) But she shooooes. How the shoes, wavelights and bouncy tracks are supposed to give an advantage to Cheptegei compared his competitors as they all benefit from it equally? So again, off topic.

You are try to prove that, despite being the WR holder in the 5k and 10k, he is not very good, which is a very suspicious take. Let's see how you deal with that :

"He has not won a race this season so far." Who cares? He raced only once and diamond league meets have never been his focus.
"His 2022 campaign was weak". Well I guess many would like to have a weak campaign with a gold medal

His 2021 campaign was weak. Well again, Olympic champion.

"His WRs were aided and he has not done much except from that". He didn't benefit from anything his competitors can't use and he has the best record of all current runners (see below).

Kampala XC WC 2017 : 30th after a health issue while he was dominating the race with a 10sec lead with 800m to go.
London WC 2017. 10k : Silver
Doha WC 2019. 5k : Gold
Arhus XC WC 2019. Gold
Gdynia HM WC : 4th
Tokyo OG : 2021. 5k : Gold 10 k : Silver
Eugene WC : 10k : Gold. 5k : 9th
Bathrust XC WC 2023 : Bronze

4 golds, 2 silvers and 1 bronze in 10 races with all kind of scenarii (leading, kicking, fast and slow races). And 3 WRs in 3 attempts. (5000/10000/5K road). While it's not perfect it's far better than any of his competitors. How does that make you think he is not there when it matters and that he won in eugene only because it was a slow race?

So your only argument left is that he doesn't show up and win every race especially the Diamond League meets (that he has still won 5times). And your conclusion is that he is not there when it matters. You seem to not understand the sport. When it matters the most is : World Championships/Olympics games and World record attempts. There is nothing that matters more than that. Diamond league is an addition to fill the in between for the fans. And a way for the athletes to test themselves and get some decent cash prizes/appearence. He is participating in every possible championship in XC, track and road, sometimes doubling (double gold in commonwealth games also). Is that what you call dodging competition?

Let's also compare vs Jakob and Kiplimo who are the 2 other most dominant athletes, from 2021, to be fair with the youngsters :

Kiplimo : 1 gold, 2 bronze. 1WR

Jakob: 2 golds, 1 silver, 1 WR

Cheptegei : 2 golds, 1 silver, 1 bronze.

So quite similar.

oldold runner wrote:

mad respect wrote:

Yeah huge respect to Kejelcha for pushing the pace as per usual and this time coming out on top with an insane win. Worlds will be very interesting this year with so many people showing up in insane shape. Everyone would have learnt their lesson from lettign the pace sag with Jakob last year, so I'm thinking that the east africans would want to drop the hammer early and push from out in front. With aregawi, kejelcha and all of those other early pace pushers in the race could we see a sub 12:50 championship race? maybe threatening the WR? I might be getting ahead of myself like how everyone was getting ahead of themselves before the 2021 olympics, but if the weather cooperates and its a cool day for the 5k, we could see some insane stuff.

I just checked the Worlds Championships men’s 5k schedule. The heats are August 24th and the final is on the 27th. Because of the new qualifying format both heats will be fast . No more time qualifiers. So it may take a sub 13:10 just to get into the final. That will put some, as Pre used to say, “crap” in their legs for the final.

With the almost certain fast heats in the 5k, some runners doubling back from the 10k and maybe 3 rounds of 1500s there is going to be some tired runners.

I agree with you. We will see some insane stuff, but not until 3 or 4 laps to go.

surgeical wrote:

bet on it wrote:

Komen, the guy whose record Jakob broke by 4 seconds?

Did you watch Jakob's 12:48 in 2021? He was cruising easily at that pace, then dropped everyone easily the last 100m and still slowed down to celebrate before the finish.

He's only gotten way faster since then. He averaged under 59 for a Two Mile race. Running 62s for a 5k wouldn't even break a sweat.

This is a bit obtuse... as a huge Jakob fan myself, I don't think anyone is saying he couldn't have won, just that it would have required 100% to do so... he is likely in 12:34 or so shape right now, but still a 12:40.xx closing in 54 (which is what it would've taken) is not at all a casual feat even for him. Yes 62s would not have taken much out of him whatsoever, yet their final 800 was something like 1:53. Do you think that is a 'cruising effort' for the man given he admittedly 'still has a bit of that 2 mile in his legs'? Come on now. That's just disrespectful to Kiplimo, who is likely in WR shape himself.