Laura MF Muir 3:55

Mental infancy.... wrote:

Mental Acrobatics wrote:

A 4.85 second improvement in 1500 over more than 2 years from the age 21 to 23. I guess everyone who improves that much in their youth is a doper.

Each year she incrementally improved as can be seen at:

http://www.thepowerof10.info/athletes/profile.aspx?athleteid=19602

Even at the age of 20 (3 years ago) she ran a 2:00.xx 800 meter. Simpson was a 2:00.xx 800 meter runner last year when she ran 3:57.xx.

Susan, we've been watching the Scot group for a few months now. Muir had a few standout performances in 2015. Hawkins has made good gains. Butchart has gone from a regional placer to a 6th place finish in an Olympic final (which set another 8 second PR and a 30+ second PR in 2016). That's not all...there are others in the pipeline. And all of this comes on the tail end of Mo Farah instantly going from Briton's best, but not a real contender, to 2011 World medal dominator and now five years beyond.

I swear...there is a recipe in the hands of British Athletics and they're using it. They've seen US dopers for years dominate. They had Dwain Chambers and vowed 'never again'. Their Lord Coe is her doc IAAF now. They are placed in a position to have unchecked assistance and avoidance and an ace in the hole. I swear...you will see British Athletes sweep up in London 2017. Brexit will be a passing thought and Britons will unite around their world domination.

In the small dark corners of the internet those of us will remember threads like these. Muir ran 3:55. Then she won gold at "home". Blah blah blah.

Mental infancy.... wrote:

Mental Acrobatics wrote:

A 4.85 second improvement in 1500 over more than 2 years from the age 21 to 23. I guess everyone who improves that much in their youth is a doper.

Each year she incrementally improved as can be seen at:

http://www.thepowerof10.info/athletes/profile.aspx?athleteid=19602

Even at the age of 20 (3 years ago) she ran a 2:00.xx 800 meter. Simpson was a 2:00.xx 800 meter runner last year when she ran 3:57.xx.

Susan, we've been watching the Scot group for a few months now. Muir had a few standout performances in 2015. Hawkins has made good gains. Butchart has gone from a regional placer to a 6th place finish in an Olympic final (which set another 8 second PR and a 30+ second PR in 2016). That's not all...there are others in the pipeline. And all of this comes on the tail end of Mo Farah instantly going from Briton's best, but not a real contender, to 2011 World medal dominator and now five years beyond.

I swear...there is a recipe in the hands of British Athletics and they're using it. They've seen US dopers for years dominate. They had Dwain Chambers and vowed 'never again'. Their Lord Coe is her doc IAAF now. They are placed in a position to have unchecked assistance and avoidance and an ace in the hole. I swear...you will see British Athletes sweep up in London 2017. Brexit will be a passing thought and Britons will unite around their world domination.

In the small dark corners of the internet those of us will remember threads like these. Muir ran 3:55. Then she won gold at "home". Blah blah blah.

Mental infancy.... wrote:

Mental Acrobatics wrote:

A 4.85 second improvement in 1500 over more than 2 years from the age 21 to 23. I guess everyone who improves that much in their youth is a doper.

Each year she incrementally improved as can be seen at:

http://www.thepowerof10.info/athletes/profile.aspx?athleteid=19602

Even at the age of 20 (3 years ago) she ran a 2:00.xx 800 meter. Simpson was a 2:00.xx 800 meter runner last year when she ran 3:57.xx.

Susan, we've been watching the Scot group for a few months now. Muir had a few standout performances in 2015. Hawkins has made good gains. Butchart has gone from a regional placer to a 6th place finish in an Olympic final (which set another 8 second PR and a 30+ second PR in 2016). That's not all...there are others in the pipeline. And all of this comes on the tail end of Mo Farah instantly going from Briton's best, but not a real contender, to 2011 World medal dominator and now five years beyond.

I swear...there is a recipe in the hands of British Athletics and they're using it. They've seen US dopers for years dominate. They had Dwain Chambers and vowed 'never again'. Their Lord Coe is her doc IAAF now. They are placed in a position to have unchecked assistance and avoidance and an ace in the hole. I swear...you will see British Athletes sweep up in London 2017. Brexit will be a passing thought and Britons will unite around their world domination.

In the small dark corners of the internet those of us will remember threads like these. Muir ran 3:55. Then she won gold at "home". Blah blah blah.

rjm33 wrote:

jeff tallon wrote:

and youre an arrogant silly dickhead.she IS doping......im not kidding.

Oh boy.

That is just a coincidence.

Let's Rock and Roll:

1972-B.Ekblum,et al. Response to Exercise after Blood Loss and Reinfusion.Journal of Applied Physiology.1972 Aug;33(2):175-80. publishes about hemoglobin changes and exercise performance changes after blood transfusions. In the same year, Lasse Viren wins the 5k and 10k gold at the Olympics, and repeats both wins in the 1976 Olympics. There were suspicions of transfusions by the Finns, but we will never know for sure.

1976-Waldemar Cierpinski cheats to win gold medal for East Germany over my hero Frank Shorter, who I believe deserves two gold medals.

1980-Cierpinski again wins marathon. Kaarlo Maaninka of Finland wins silver in 10k and bronze in 5k, and is found to have done blood transfusions.

1982-Francesco Conconi of Italy publishes journal articles about the anaerobic threshold, with variations on the CONCONI test being done to this day on runners and cyclists...

1984-Allberto Cova of Italy wins 10k Olympic gold…and did blood transfusions...,Marti Vainio of Finland wins silver in 10k,but is caught with anabolic steroid metenolone, which was possibly in his old stored blood which he transfused before the race, but forgot he was on metenolone when the blood was withdrawn for storage. He was not a very smart doper.

Meanwhile, it is discovered that one third of the US Cycling team at the Olympics, which won 9 medals, were doing blood transfusions.

1985-blood transfusions are declared illegal and banned...but there is no test for detection.

1987-New England Journal of Medicine publishes trial of recombinant EPO called Epogen, made by the biotech firm Amgen. Amgen ironically goes on to be a major sponsor of the cycling Tour of California, where many of the riders are using its EPO product.

1987 - 5 Dutch cyclists die.

1988- 2 Dutch cyclists die. 1 Belgian cyclist dies.

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/05/19/us/stamina-building-drug-linked-to-athletes-deaths.html

1988- Dr. Francesco Conconi publishes a study on serum EPO levels in cross-country skiers:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3384528https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesco_Conconi

1988-Salvatore Antibo from Italy wins Olympic silver in 10k and Gelindo Bordin wins the gold medal in the marathon. Bordin also wins Boston in 1990.

1989-Epogen approved by FDA for use in US.

1989-EPO moves into cycling in a big way. 5 more Dutch cyclists die.

1990- 2 more Dutch cyclists die and 3 more Belgian cyclists die.

1990- IOC bans EPO, but there is no test for detection of EPO.

1990-1991- track has 3 to 5 sub 13:10 5k perfomers and/or performances per year.

1991- Dr. Gabriele Rosa arrives in Kenya and sets up his first training camp.

1992- Dr. Eufemiano Fuentes of Spain (of later Operation Puerto fame) is a doctor in Spain as Fermin Cacho wins the 1500m at the Barcelona Olympics. Dieter Baumann wins the 5k and Khalid Skah wins the 10k.

1993-14 men break 13:10 a total of 21 times!!! while the Chinese women go on a rampage with Wang Junxia 29:31.78 10k WR, 8:06.11 3k WR, that still stand to this day. (New 29:17 by Alamaz Ayana in my 2016 Update to come at the end of 2016.)

1993 -2000-rampant EPO use..no test for detection..records smashed, huge depth of fast times by many people in track and cycling. Cyclists like Pantani and Riis pushing their hematocrits up to dangerous levels of 60 or 65%.. Cycling finally institutes a hematocrit cutoff limit max hematocrit of 50% or you can't race...cyclists respond by basically all of them then having hematocrits of 48-49.5%, just a coincidence that they are all just below the limit...right?

A protege of the Italian Dr. Conconi, mentioned previously, went on to become much more famous..his name was Dr. Michele Ferrari, and he was the doctor to the stars of pro cycling, most of all, he was doctor to Lance Armstrong, who is the prototype for a pharmaceutical experiment gone mad disguised as an athlete..They did everything...EPO,transfusions, the anabolic steroid testosterone, Human Growth Hormone, and probably other things we don't even know about. What a name! You can't make this stuff up...the mad genius Dr. Ferrari really did turn his riders into Ferraris, with extra horsepower!!!..., He also did a great job making sure that 1) he kept Lance alive and didn't kill him. and 2) that he somehow passed his drug tests. It was probably Ferrari that pioneered taking EPO by iv instead of subcutaneous injection, so that the EPO could be cleared faster, and the window for a positive epo test was then very small. A very smart guy who is presently in trouble with tax authorities for hiding large amounts of money in secret bank accounts, and he is also banned for life from cycling.

2000-first urine tests for epo appear around this time, not sure when, and the test improved by around 2005..The new test for EPO leads athletes back to the old method of blood transfusions, to avoid detection.

2004-Italian Stefano Baldini wins gold medal in marathon. American Tyler Hamilton is caught doing a homologous blood tranfusion of someone else's blood at the Olympics, where he won the gold medal. His B test at the Olympics had problems and he kept the medal on a technicality, but finally returned the medal in 2011. His lawyers used the famous "Tyler is a human chimera with a vanishing twin" defense to explain why he had blood from two different people in his bloodstream.. which wins the comedy prize for funniest doping excuse ever!!!

2006- Operation Puerto with Dr. Fuentes and 200 bags of blood, steroids.

2008-CERA (Continuous Erythropoietin Receptor Activator) , a new longer acting agent, with a much longer half-life 20x longer than epo, is appoved for use in Jan, 2008 under the name Mircera. Rashid Ramzi tests positive for CERA at the 2008 Olympics, and loses his gold medal.

2009-2015-development of EPO mimetic peptides such as peginesatide and CNTO530 and development of orally active Hypoxia-Inducible Factor(HIF) stabilizers. You can just take a pill which works like EPO. The Company Fibrinogen has compounds FG2216,FG4592, and FG4497, which stabilize HIF by inhibiting the enzyme prolyl-hydroxylase, which is involved in the breakdown of HIF by the ubiquitin proteosome pathway. HIF is a transcription factor which increases the gene expression of about 200 different genes, including the gene for EPO. So increased levels of HIF-1 alpha signals cells in the kidney to increase transcription of Erythropoietin(EPO), which travels to the bone marrow and binds to progenitor cells, and increases erythropoiesis, the production of new red blood cells. This is how HIF stabilizers work.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22362605http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26808067http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27346747

Another compound involved with HIF is cobalt chloride, which also acts as a HIF stabilizer, is orally active, but is not recommended, as it is toxic to the gastrointestinal system, thyroid, heart, liver and kidney and may cause cancer. There is now a blood test to test for cobalt levels.

Other recent research is looking at inhalation of the noble gases Xenon, and Krypton as HIF activators of erythropoiesis. They have been used by Russian athletes. The compounds have recently been banned and there is now a test for them.The cheaters are always finding new ways to cheat and the testers are always trying to find new ways to test.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26939898http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24861600http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27001214

For further reading..check out: Simon Beuck,et al. Hypoxia-inducible factor stabilizers and other small-molecule erythropoiesis stimulating agents in current and preventive doping analysis. Drug Testing and Analysis 2012 Nov;4(11):830-45., from their special issue on Sports Drug Testing for Erythropoiesis-Stimulating Agents and Autologous Blood Transfusion. There are many interesting articles in this issue.

So that brings us to today, Dec. 2015. Dr.Gabriele Rosa from 1991 in Kenya now has a son Federico Rosa, who still works with top Kenyan runners today in Kenya, and used to work with Claudio Berardelli, Rita Jeptoo, and other Kenyans.

And we forgot Turkey (Altepkin 2012 Olympic 1500m gold-gone now) and all the Russians, and all their positives ,and all the destroyed samples, and the leaked 12 year database of blood tests that nobody can see, and Paula's tests that nobody can see...and Dr. Saugy turning up over and over, from Lance to Paula (her "blood test expert") to destroyed Russian samples .... and Seppelt's documentary, which Lord Seb Coe says he hasn't seen... to IAAF corruption, bribes at IAAF and in Kenya, head of anti-doping at IAAF arrested, and head of IAAF arrested, and maybe covered up tests... or just no testing at all or no followup in other cases...and Lord Coe tells us he doesn't know ANYTHING about any of this while he has been vice-president under Lamine Diack for eight years.... and he calls Ashenden "a so-called expert...Give me a break".

I say give us.... the people who value integrity and honesty...give us a break... from this perpetual game of How to win in track and field by cheating, which has been going strong for over 40 years... and shows no signs of slowing down any time soon.

To infinity and beyond...

Deanouk wrote:

Mental infancy.... wrote:

Susan, we've been watching the Scot group for a few months now. Muir had a few standout performances in 2015. Hawkins has made good gains. Butchart has gone from a regional placer to a 6th place finish in an Olympic final (which set another 8 second PR and a 30+ second PR in 2016). That's not all...there are others in the pipeline. And all of this comes on the tail end of Mo Farah instantly going from Briton's best, but not a real contender, to 2011 World medal dominator and now five years beyond.

I swear...there is a recipe in the hands of British Athletics and they're using it. They've seen US dopers for years dominate. They had Dwain Chambers and vowed 'never again'. Their Lord Coe is her doc IAAF now. They are placed in a position to have unchecked assistance and avoidance and an ace in the hole. I swear...you will see British Athletes sweep up in London 2017. Brexit will be a passing thought and Britons will unite around their world domination.

In the small dark corners of the internet those of us will remember threads like these. Muir ran 3:55. Then she won gold at "home". Blah blah blah.

What a lot of nonsense. The GB athletics team did poorly in Rio. We did well in many sports, where we have done well for many years now, but in T&F we won 7 medals. Take away Mo and it's a paltry 5. 2 of them were from reigning Olympic champions. That leaves 3! Is this the evidence of global domination? LOL!

The U.K has had far more successful periods in T&F in the past 40 years.

Don't you think if there was some sort of corrupt cover up by UKA, and they found a way to dope and not get caught we'd have some even half decent guys running 800 and 1500. For years we have had about 3 around the 1:44/1:45 mark and about 4 around 3:33-3:35. Or do we choose not to dope in these blue ribband events.

Muir's incremental improvements over the last 2 years and great front running have shown she was a great talent from the age of 20. Her progression is far less suspicious than Murphy, who now is an Olympic medalist. So why the double standards?

I have no reason to believe Murphy is doping. I'd like to believe he is just a prodigious talent who is now breaking through. I enjoyed watching him.

But prodigious talents aren't exclusive to the US! There will always be individuals from around the world who will be standout performers.

Yes, I think there are dopers above her on the all time list, but remember that a lot of those were 20-30 years ago. Training has evolved a lot in that time and the tracks are definitely faster. Allow a doped up Kazankina to train for a year now, on faster tracks and with the competition we have now, and she'd probably have run 3:49. That is 6 seconds faster than Muir. Is that really indicative of someone who is doping? Shouldn't a great talent who is clean be able to run within 6 secs of a great talent who has doped?

SimpleQuestion wrote:

Deanouk wrote:

What a lot of nonsense. The GB athletics team did poorly in Rio. We did well in many sports, where we have done well for many years now, but in T&F we won 7 medals. Take away Mo and it's a paltry 5. 2 of them were from reigning Olympic champions. That leaves 3! Is this the evidence of global domination? LOL!

The U.K has had far more successful periods in T&F in the past 40 years.

Don't you think if there was some sort of corrupt cover up by UKA, and they found a way to dope and not get caught we'd have some even half decent guys running 800 and 1500. For years we have had about 3 around the 1:44/1:45 mark and about 4 around 3:33-3:35. Or do we choose not to dope in these blue ribband events.

Muir's incremental improvements over the last 2 years and great front running have shown she was a great talent from the age of 20. Her progression is far less suspicious than Murphy, who now is an Olympic medalist. So why the double standards?

I have no reason to believe Murphy is doping. I'd like to believe he is just a prodigious talent who is now breaking through. I enjoyed watching him.

But prodigious talents aren't exclusive to the US! There will always be individuals from around the world who will be standout performers.

Yes, I think there are dopers above her on the all time list, but remember that a lot of those were 20-30 years ago. Training has evolved a lot in that time and the tracks are definitely faster. Allow a doped up Kazankina to train for a year now, on faster tracks and with the competition we have now, and she'd probably have run 3:49. That is 6 seconds faster than Muir. Is that really indicative of someone who is doping? Shouldn't a great talent who is clean be able to run within 6 secs of a great talent who has doped?

Simple questions to the rah-rah Brits who think Muirs time is not extraordinary:

1. Who above Muir in the all-time list do you think was clean?

2. If you can't name anyone, then you effectively accept that Muir now holds the "clean" world record. Would you not describe that as pretty extraordinary for someone who just a few years ago was a minor medallist in the scottish schools champs?