Allie O in Pre Steeple

Mel Lawrence is the Iron Woman of the steeple. She has stuck it out for 14 years!

2019 9:29.81 Oslo (NOR) 13 JUN 2019

2018 9:32.68 Liège (BEL) 18 JUL 2018

2017 9:34.94 Karlstad (SWE) 25 JUL 2017

2016 9:36.35 Eugene, OR (USA) 07 JUL 2016

2015 10:05.04 Portland, OR (USA) 14 JUN 2015

2013 10:07.78 Eugene, OR (USA) 06 APR 2013

2011 10:27.66 Seattle, WA (USA) 29 APR 2011

2010 10:06.09 Eugene, OR (USA) 10 JUN 2010

2009 9:40.98 Fayetteville, AR (USA) 12 JUN 2009

2006 10:15.26 Indianapolis, IN (USA) 23 JUN 2006

2005 10:27.44 Windsor (CAN) 30 JUL 2005

I hope both she and Allie can scare 9:20

GFR wrote:

Runnerchx44 wrote:

Do Stephanie Garcia and Leah Oconnor still steeple? If so, they could be threats, too. But I like Allie’s chances. I say sub 9:30 for sure.

Question: can she get the NCAA steeple record in a non-collegiate meet? If she were to break Frerichs NCAA record time at Pre, does it count?

I thought Barringer's 9:12 was the NCAA record. She certainly won't touch that.

Don't know for sure all the intricacies of what counts as a collegiate record (I'm sure some posters on Letsrun do), but Simpson's (Barringer's) 9:12 record isn't shown here (

) as an NCAA record; Frierich's 9:24.41 is.

Looking a little closer, I'm guessing Barringer's time (9:12.50) doesn't count as it run after she was out of track eligibility?

Per the CU record book (

), that time is from an IAAF race in August 2009 in Berlin, while 2009 was her last NCAA outside track season. (That time does still count as a school record, however- I assume because she must have redshirted a cross country season, as she did stay around to run in the 2009 cross country season.?.)

The answer is 9:28.

Mark

Mark on the nose wrote:

The answer is 9:28.

Mark

I like the sound of that!

Grad present wrote:

Had Allie gone pro? Agent? GRoup?

Anyone know the answers to these questions?

DNF

Graduation or Boise 5th wrote:

Grad present wrote:

Had Allie gone pro? Agent? GRoup?

Anyone know the answers to these questions?

I believe she is entering grad school at Boise and using her 5th year of running eligibility.

Graduation or Boise 5th wrote:

Grad present wrote:

Had Allie gone pro? Agent? GRoup?

Anyone know the answers to these questions?

We would have heard if she had gone pro and, as a junior, it makes sense she will head back to Boise next year.

I guess the one thing that might make it interesting in a few weeks is if she, or Dani Jones is another one who comes to mind, pulled major upsets and qualified for the World Championships in their events (both of which would probably require significant PR's) - would that have sponsors offering enough money to tempt one or both to leave college (competition) early?

who knows wrote:

Graduation or Boise 5th wrote:

Anyone know the answers to these questions?

We would have heard if she had gone pro and, as a junior, it makes sense she will head back to Boise next year.

I guess the one thing that might make it interesting in a few weeks is if she, or Dani Jones is another one who comes to mind, pulled major upsets and qualified for the World Championships in their events (both of which would probably require significant PR's) - would that have sponsors offering enough money to tempt one or both to leave college (competition) early?

We have 4 spots in the steeple this year, so it wouldn't have to be a huge upset for Allie qualify. Depends on who is healthy and on the line, but 4th isn't too much of a stretch. How many legit contenders do we have for those 4 spots right now ? 6-7? History tells us probably ~5 of those will be on the starting line in peak shape when it counts.

With Garcia and O’connor seemingly dead, it will come down to Allie Ostrander vs Mel Lawrence. That supposes that Emma/Courtney and Quigley are healthy.

I give nod to Allie Ostrander as a superior flat runner. She will make team and has already gone pro despite having remaining eligibility.

9:19

Is her PB 9:37 (as of IAAF profile) or 9:32 (as someone wrote here)?

Frankly, I don't see where an improvement to around or sub 9:20 should suddenly come from. She has been running steeple for several years now. She ran 15:24 in the 5k already 3 years ago, so she should have been fast enough for 9:25 for some time but stuck around 9:40. This cannot be only because of weak competition. Sure, every athlete is different but 15-20 seconds is a huge step if one is already a fairly accomplished steeplechaser. As said, Krause and Moller ran 9:32 at 19 and it took Krause almost 4 years to break 9:20 (Moller stuck at around 9:30 for two years and improved to 9:24 in Oslo, she is about 6 months younger than Allie).

Jo72 wrote:

Is her PB 9:37 (as of IAAF profile) or 9:32 (as someone wrote here)?

Frankly, I don't see where an improvement to around or sub 9:20 should suddenly come from. She has been running steeple for several years now. She ran 15:24 in the 5k already 3 years ago, so she should have been fast enough for 9:25 for some time but stuck around 9:40. This cannot be only because of weak competition. Sure, every athlete is different but 15-20 seconds is a huge step if one is already a fairly accomplished steeplechaser. As said, Krause and Moller ran 9:32 at 19 and it took Krause almost 4 years to break 9:20 (Moller stuck at around 9:30 for two years and improved to 9:24 in Oslo, she is about 6 months younger than Allie).

Her 9:37 was in 98 degree heat.

I agree that people talking about sub 9:20 are being a bit unrealistic, but I think sub dropping 7-10 seconds to go sub 9:30 is not unreasonable.

I see the point with heat but why didn't she run faster last year when she was already a 15:25 5k runner?

Allie's 5k times have been consistently better than her steeple times. And now her 32:06 in the 10k is also considerably better. A good steeplechaser should get close to her 5k pace in the 3k steeple. Someone like Krause who dislikes longer distances and hardly ever runs them is actually slightly faster in her best steeple than 5k (3:04 vs. 3:05 pace); Coburn would probably run around 15:00 5k. Ostrander runs 3:03-05 pace in the 5k (15:16 indoors) and 3:12 pace (about her 10k pace!) in the steeple.

So 9:25-28 possible, but ~9:20 would be very surprising. I think people tend to underestimate the gap between dipping under 9:30 and times around 9:20 (again, unless one improved a lot in technique).

Jo72 wrote:

I see the point with heat but why didn't she run faster last year when she was already a 15:25 5k runner?

Allie's 5k times have been consistently better than her steeple times. And now her 32:06 in the 10k is also considerably better. A good steeplechaser should get close to her 5k pace in the 3k steeple. Someone like Krause who dislikes longer distances and hardly ever runs them is actually slightly faster in her best steeple than 5k (3:04 vs. 3:05 pace); Coburn would probably run around 15:00 5k. Ostrander runs 3:03-05 pace in the 5k (15:16 indoors) and 3:12 pace (about her 10k pace!) in the steeple.

So 9:25-28 possible, but ~9:20 would be very surprising. I think people tend to underestimate the gap between dipping under 9:30 and times around 9:20 (again, unless one improved a lot in technique).

She's run a few 9:40 lows in prelims and conference meets that looked like she was doing a controlled workout. I wouldn't look too hard into the times, considering she has never lost in the event and beat a 9:29 steepler multiple times this year.

I think you are right that 9:20 is probably a pipedream this year, but sub 9:30 seems very likely.

Jo72 wrote:

Is her PB 9:37 (as of IAAF profile) or 9:32 (as someone wrote here)?

Frankly, I don't see where an improvement to around or sub 9:20 should suddenly come from. She has been running steeple for several years now. She ran 15:24 in the 5k already 3 years ago, so she should have been fast enough for 9:25 for some time but stuck around 9:40. This cannot be only because of weak competition. Sure, every athlete is different but 15-20 seconds is a huge step if one is already a fairly accomplished steeplechaser. As said, Krause and Moller ran 9:32 at 19 and it took Krause almost 4 years to break 9:20 (Moller stuck at around 9:30 for two years and improved to 9:24 in Oslo, she is about 6 months younger than Allie).

Actually looking at her results, all of her sub 9:40 and faster times have come with 5-7 second margins of victories.

Allie is an extremely small/light runner. So physiologically, she has a massive advantage in the heat compared to taller, heavier runners. She is still affected by it, but not as much as others. There are "heat index" running charts that show how much faster you would be in ideal conditions, but those charts are just an average - some like Allie will do better in heat than suggested (and as a result, will not be that much faster in ideal conditions) whereas others will do terrible.

GFR wrote:

Runnerchx44 wrote:

Do Stephanie Garcia and Leah Oconnor still steeple? If so, they could be threats, too. But I like Allie’s chances. I say sub 9:30 for sure.

Question: can she get the NCAA steeple record in a non-collegiate meet? If she were to break Frerichs NCAA record time at Pre, does it count?

I thought Barringer's 9:12 was the NCAA record. She certainly won't touch that.

Some databases count post senior track times and most school will classify it as the school record, but NCAA wise, once you finish your eligibility, its over.

NOW in order for summer track results to count for NCAA purposes, you have to have your college jersey on, you have to representing the school including getting permission to compete in a out-of season meet and you have to have at least one season of eligibility left. Not sure if XC and track can be classified interchangeably, but Simpson did have XC left (if it mattered). The only problem was, she ran 9:12 at World representing USA, not Colorado.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

an honest prediction wrote:

Perfect weather and perfect competition. Allie definitely rises to the competition she races with. Call me crazy, but I'm thinking she'll run something like 9:14.

It takes good 1500 speed to be an elite Steepler and to run 9:14, around 4:05 is necessary. Her PR is 4:15, but we don't how soft that time is.

Can frerichs run much under 4:05..?