Good Lord, the Bekele London Training Stuff Was True

Equipoise wrote:

You don't think that collagen synthesis can be increased with PEDs?

I think your brain was synthesized.

This guy considers randomized controlled trials the only way to truly Know something. He does have a point - although you'd think lactate rather than oxygen is limiting, he has shown that supplemental oxygen improves performance in untrained and trained runners and cyclists.

You can theorize all day about physiology and training methods, but at the end of the day you need to assign opposing methods to separate groups of athletes and measure the outcome.

“I thought it was over,” Pitsiladis said. “He looked like a broken man.”Injuries had piled up. A stress fracture in his ankle. A torn calf muscle. Strained Achilles’ tendons.to come back and run 2:06 after that, not in full fitness. wow

Shizzy wrote:

There is a part in this article that is suspicious to me.

"In March, Bekele turned inward, secretive, as he sometimes had at the height of his career. He declined to tell Pitsiladis about his training regimen. He would not allow his physiotherapist to weigh him."

My initial thought was, he's struggling he's starting to dope. I hope it's just a Quentin Cassidy moment of escaping to train hard and not the something darker.

All together the first part of this article and this are a great read. In Part 1 they mention that there isn't much science behind elite training methods. How true is that?

Also, as an aside, Bolt visited Munich for a week during the end of winter. The Letsrun guys need to get on Snapchat and Instagram, you can learn a lot about elite athletes habits on there.

Shizzy wrote:

The Letsrun guys need to get on Snapchat and Instagram, you can learn a lot about elite athletes habits on there.

+1

funny that he's going to the same place all these great runners come from to "discover" a talent scientifically. Those talents arise from this place already. He is certainly not in a position to improve on the trials of thousands.

My thoughts exactly, Shizzy. Interesting to overlay that with what Canova said post-London:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=723032

"After his injury in Dubai last year, HE DIDN'T RUN FOR 11 MONTHS, till the beginning of 2016, and was in treatment with an equipe of doctors and physios from England. His problem in the left Achilles tendon was almost solved, but he started to have a similar problem in his right tendon.

However, he started jogging at the beginning of January : one session per day, not longer than 1 hour till half of February, when started to increase the volume.

His REAL training started 7 weeks ago (so are practically 6 weeks of preparation)."

Seven weeks before London was March 6, which is basically when Pitsiladis said Bekele "turned inward" and declined to talk about his training regimen.

So I presume the 1,000-1,500 calories a day were when he was running "not longer than 1 hour" a day in the first half of February.

Man, I guess that's all possible -- I'm just blown away to see him finishing that close to Kipchoge who, by the way, may have run the best marathon ever that day

One assumption I usually make when reading articles like this is that the people interviewed have either selective memory or they are trying to elevate the status of the person they are talking about. In other words, there is some level of exaggeration.

But if this is even close to descriptive of his training, something is certainly unusual. I've seen many runners come back after an injury and run a very good 5k, but beyond a 10k real fitness is required. Bekele is certainly a talented runner, but 4 months of running where 2+ months of it was "jogging" will not produce a world class marathon.

Assumptions wrote:

One assumption I usually make when reading articles like this is that the people interviewed have either selective memory or they are trying to elevate the status of the person they are talking about. In other words, there is some level of exaggeration.

But if this is even close to descriptive of his training, something is certainly unusual. I've seen many runners come back after an injury and run a very good 5k, but beyond a 10k real fitness is required. Bekele is certainly a talented runner, but 4 months of running where 2+ months of it was "jogging" will not produce a world class marathon.

I agree. People tend to talk up things. But still, I would say 2:06 is very impressive given his setbacks, and I think in the next couple of years bekele could run some serious times if he can stay healthy.

If Marry Wittenberg (see front page quote) that the ambition to break 2h is the reason why all the Kenyans are doping, then she is delusional.

Does she think runners would dope for sub2 but not to win the NYC Marathon, which comes with just as much fame?

Assumptions wrote:

One assumption I usually make when reading articles like this is that the people interviewed have either selective memory or they are trying to elevate the status of the person they are talking about. In other words, there is some level of exaggeration.

But if this is even close to descriptive of his training, something is certainly unusual. I've seen many runners come back after an injury and run a very good 5k, but beyond a 10k real fitness is required. Bekele is certainly a talented runner, but 4 months of running where 2+ months of it was "jogging" will not produce a world class marathon.

Bear in mind we are talking about the greatest distance runner of all time here

"In March, Bekele turned inward, secretive, as he sometimes had at the height of his career. He declined to tell Pitsiladis about his training regimen. He would not allow his physiotherapist to weigh him.“He likes to make history when no one is watching,”

indeed. hah. Exactly what you'd expect a doper to do.

that would explain how we went from zero to 3rd in London in a few months.

youth.in.revolt wrote:

My thoughts exactly, Shizzy. Interesting to overlay that with what Canova said post-London:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=723032

"After his injury in Dubai last year, HE DIDN'T RUN FOR 11 MONTHS,

This doesn't seem to be entirely true... The article has a photo of Bekele on a training run captioned as being in September, and I believe it said his recent Achilles problems flared up after a run in 'unfamiliar' shoes in November (although, being 25lbs overweight, he likely hadn't been doin much running) Part of the strict dieting was the hope that less weight/less strain= less Achilles problems.

I thought the most interesting things said about KB were the cultural things: his religion, perceptions about food (eg the banana anecdote), reluctance about scientific training &physio, and how Mo Farah's success with 'scientific' training is shaking up the norms of Ethiopian/Kenyan running cultures.

What could KB if he supplemented training with an alter-g and took advantage of all the support Nike offers its other runners?

Shizzy wrote:

There is a part in this article that is suspicious to me.

"In March, Bekele turned inward, secretive, as he sometimes had at the height of his career. He declined to tell Pitsiladis about his training regimen. He would not allow his physiotherapist to weigh him."

My initial thought was, he's struggling he's starting to dope. I hope it's just a Quentin Cassidy moment of escaping to train hard and not the something darker.

All together the first part of this article and this are a great read. In Part 1 they mention that there isn't much science behind elite training methods. How true is that?

Also, as an aside, Bolt visited Munich for a week during the end of winter. The Letsrun guys need to get on Snapchat and Instagram, you can learn a lot about elite athletes habits on there.

If Bekele was not telling Pitsiladis about his training regimen before the London marathon, then Pitsiladis should not try to take credit for the success of Bekele at the London marathon.

Bekele has a 5k PR of 12:37 and a 10k PR of 26:17 compared to Mo Farah with a 5K PR of 12:53 and 10K PR of 26:46 with his "scientific" training approach involving "push ups", "sit ups", "core work", and "weight training".

Is that approach really the "secret" to improve the running of the greatest runner of all time on this planet? Probably not, although it may help with rehab of his injuries.

The article also does not seem to mention if the decision to see "Healing Hans" in Germany was made by Bekele himself or Pitsiladis. That is definitely a reason for concern.

I also personally think Pitsiladis is a nutcase who wants to be famous.

Do you or anyone else know if Bekele has seen "Healing Hans" in the past before this recent visit?

Paul Tergat was quoted and I paraphrase, "I learned that the marathon has to be a long process. It has to be a different kind of game you start from zero.....it doesn't matter how good you are on the track or how good you are in cross country when your talking about 26M you are talking of different limits...T&FN Nov 2003. He had three "failed" marathon attempts before he broke the record in Berlin 2:04:55

agip wrote:

"In March, Bekele turned inward, secretive, as he sometimes had at the height of his career. He declined to tell Pitsiladis about his training regimen. He would not allow his physiotherapist to weigh him.“He likes to make history when no one is watching,”

indeed. hah. Exactly what you'd expect a doper to do.

that would explain how we went from zero to 3rd in London in a few months.

Gratuitous. You may as well say talent and training. (I am not claiming he is clean, but it's funny to see you making that sort of claims. You got enraged when some people said Boston was fixed the year Keflezighi won, because we had no evidence in your opinion. What's your evidence here?)

rjm33 wrote:

I also personally think Pitsiladis is a nutcase who wants to be famous.

Judging from the articles (and concurring with Ross Tucker), he certainly looks way too confident. Do you really want to try fancy preparation methods on the best runner there ever was in his last good years? More `scientific', proven preparation: OK, unproven methods: maybe not such a good idea.

Exactly this.

Also most athletes are superstitious and not so bright.

They think magic works.

People reference Bekele's 2:06, but given that he was hanging with sub-WR pace the first half+, under more even-paced circumstances he runs 2:05, maybe sneaks under 2:05. Pretty ridiculous given the training/injury/weight situation described. Almsot "otherworldy".

Collagic mess wrote:

Equipoise wrote:

You don't think that collagen synthesis can be increased with PEDs?

I think your brain was synthesized.

Of course it was, how else do you think we attain one?

Geez.