Casey Clinger Can BEAT Andrew Hunter

Prognostication wrote:

The dude runs 75 mpw. That's college training. He'll burn out, stagnate iin college and Clinger ultimately will show more upside. Bump this thread in a few years

Yes. Look at the career of Craig Virgin post-HS.

you don't even know wrote:

This is a weird one, but one I'll stand by.

Case Clinger is the purest racer I've seen. In any sort of national race where tactics come into play, that dude has the close to beat anybody. I think if they were in a tactical 5k, Clinger could change gears faster than Hunter. People will say that Hunter will easily win in an overall fast race, but I think Clinger has a strength that many don't know about. It would be tighter than ppl think.

Just my two cents, from a guy that's seen a lot of Casey's races.

No disrespect intended.

Clinger = good/very good xc

Hunter = great

Clinger is about were Hunter was as a sophomore; there is really no comparison. Clinger clearly benefited from the nxn/fl split; he probably has goals of qualifying for some of the H.S. elite meets, perhaps running something like 4:08/8:55. Hunter on the other hand will be chasing national records.

Clinger ran 4:13 and 9:03 for 1600 and 3200 at altitude as a sophomore. Those are super times for a soph. He's grown immensely since then (physically). Obviously Hunter is The Man, but Clinger could be the man soon

just for debate wrote:

Clinger ran 4:13 and 9:03 for 1600 and 3200 at altitude as a sophomore. Those are super times for a soph. He's grown immensely since then (physically). Obviously Hunter is The Man, but Clinger could be the man soon

No doubt Clinger would win. He is the best in the country. Hands down, and he showed he can beat anybody last weekend. I mean his times were good enough to be converted to 4:07 and 8:52 as a sophomore

A few weeks ago Casey ran a 4:10 in a team time trial. And remember all his track times are at altitude. Beat Hunter? Maybe in XC...

If Veatch wins FL, then Clinger is number 1.

If Veatch is more than three seconds back of Hunter, then Hunter is number 1.

Somewhere in between then it's a toss up???

Bylaner wrote:

just for debate wrote:

Clinger ran 4:13 and 9:03 for 1600 and 3200 at altitude as a sophomore. Those are super times for a soph. He's grown immensely since then (physically). Obviously Hunter is The Man, but Clinger could be the man soon

No doubt Clinger would win. He is the best in the country. Hands down, and he showed he can beat anybody last weekend. I mean his times were good enough to be converted to 4:07 and 8:52 as a sophomore

I feel like you're trolling, but I'll answer as if you're not. Hunter ran a 4:08 converted 1600 and an 8:53 full 2 mile as a sophomore. And he improved a ton over the next year. And he appears to have improved by a ton again over this year. None of this should be taken to be puttin down Clinger, he is a fantastic talent and absolutely deserves his victory at NXN, which may have had as much depth at the top as Footlocker will. But Hunter, barring a miracle, is a cut above anyone this year, and that includes Clinger. That doesn't mean Clinger won't be better than Hunter next year, or that Clinger might run 12:40 while Hunter stagnates at 13:40. All it means is that Clinger, right now, probably couldn't beat Hunter in a cross country race, assuming Hunter was running like himself.

Clinger's got the benefit of altitude training, while Hunter may be running more miles, is older, and has far better current track credentials. NXN results have not proven very much because the best in the country are at FLXC. 75 mpw is hardly maxing out and far from burnout. Hunter'll have far better people to run with and much faster workouts in college, plus he's only been running a few years now. He has plenty of room to improve and will. As trialswatcher says, he looks like an all-timer in track and is burning up the courses in xc as well. To beat a 2-time FL champ and sub-4 minute hs runner, in only his junior year, and with a 54 close in the 2M victory, shows that he will write his name all over the record books this year.

Look at the list of athletes that Clinger has defeated;

Austin Tamagno - California #1; 5th @ 2014 Foot Locker

Jon Davis - Illinois State Champion 13:59 @ Detweiller, Foot Locker MW Champion

Aidan Tooker - New York Federation Champion; Defeated Foot Locker NE Champion

Garek Bielaczyz - Foot Locker West Champion

Talon Hull - Foot Locker West Region Qualifier

Jaret Carpenter - Minnesota State Champion; NXNHL Champion

Connor Arnell - Foot Locker West Region Qualifier

Ben Petrella - New York State Champion; NXNNY Champion

Brody Hasty - Tennessee State Champion; NXNSE Champion

Brody Smith - Wyoming State Champion; NXNNW Champion

Reed Brown - NXNSO Champion; Foot Locker Finals Qualifier

David Principe - Rhode Island State Champion; New England Champion

Blaise Ferro - NXNNE Champion

Paul Roberts - Colorado State Champion

Ben Veatch - Indiana State Champion

Alek Parsons - Utah State Champion

Eduardo Herrera - CIF Division I Runner-up

Finn Gessner - Wisconsin State Champion

Seth Hirsch - Nebraska State Champion

Morgan Beadlescomb - Michigan State Champion

Paul Roberts - Kansas State Champion

Kenny Vasbinder - New York State Champion

Ben Butler - Colorado State Champion

Micah Mather - Minnesota State #2

Kevin Murray - Delaware State Champion

Jack Yearian - Washington State Champion

Ahmed Muhumed - Oregon State Champion

Sam Clausnitzer - North Dakota State Champion

Carlos Torres - Georgia State Champion

Chas Cook - Florida State Champion

Walter Vail - Oregon State Champion

Isaac Green - Colorado State Champion

Philip Rocha - California State Champion

Niles Thomas - New Mexico State Champion

DJ Harris - Arizona State Champion

Nick Hill - Utah State Champion

Jace Richins - Utah State Champion

Andrew Bosquez - New Mexico State Champion

Tanner Norman - Colorado State Champion

How is Tamango CA #1? He didn't even win his race at states.

Also, listing people Hunter would also easily beat doesn't prove any points. You just spent a lot of time on a meaningless list.

Clinger ran a 200 speed rating. Which is great for a junior. Hunter ran 204 at the South regional and 202 at FL as a junior.

Do any of them run 8:42? Or 4:02? Or even 1:52? Clinger has had a great season, and proved his mettle by winning NXN. In the pantheon of high school athletes this year, he's probably in the second-highest echelon. Only Hunter stands above him. Obviously, a lot of great runners stand below him.

Actually tamagno did win his race at states, he won the division 3 race, the division his school his in due to school size. In division 1, the division for the biggest schools Phillip Rocha ran faster than tamagno did in his race, with the aid of being pushed by Eduardo Herrera. Phillip Rocha and Austin Tamagno both won their state meet race at the California State meet...Rocha just ran faster, due to having competition the whole way, whereas tamagno was by himself the last 2 miles and dropped second place by almost 30 seconds. So you are R.O.N.G "oh brother"

We will never really know for sure as long as the top talent gets diluted into 2 national races. Only Midwesterners like Verzbicas have the opportunity. Unless the best runners get to race head to head, e.g. Kelati vs. Rainsberger, we can only speculate. Some courses favor strength runners, others speed. It is unfortunate that the system is set up so that we can only speculate on likely outcomes of hypothetical races. On the other hand--the Nike Cross champs gives strong teams the opportunity to shine in the national spotlight hitherto.

Kev2 wrote:

We will never really know for sure as long as the top talent gets diluted into 2 national races. Only Midwesterners like Verzbicas have the opportunity. Unless the best runners get to race head to head, e.g. Kelati vs. Rainsberger, we can only speculate. Some courses favor strength runners, others speed. It is unfortunate that the system is set up so that we can only speculate on likely outcomes of hypothetical races. On the other hand--the Nike Cross champs gives strong teams the opportunity to shine in the national spotlight hitherto.

No, I'm pretty sure we know who's better between Hunter and Clinger.

Steve magness would've beat both in his younger days in high school. He's so cool dude.

In a mile or 2 mile for sure Hunter seems unstoppable. However, cross country is not track and while having great track times helps for sure, there is a lot more variability of terrain and conditions which can play into the hands of some runners who may not have top track credentials. Case in point, Pat Porter in the 1980s was practically unbeatable among Americans in cross country but did not excel in track to the same degree and got beat by a fair number of elites.

Kev2 wrote:

In a mile or 2 mile for sure Hunter seems unstoppable. However, cross country is not track and while having great track times helps for sure, there is a lot more variability of terrain and conditions which can play into the hands of some runners who may not have top track credentials. Case in point, Pat Porter in the 1980s was practically unbeatable among Americans in cross country but did not excel in track to the same degree and got beat by a fair number of elites.

Andrew Hunter:

4th at FLN as a junior in 15:14

1st at Oatlands in 15:11--this is a very difficult course--McGorty ran 15:26 on it

1st at VHSL in 14:40 as a junior--McGorty ran 14:47

1st at Third Battle in 14:20--legit 5k, even if easy

1st at FL South in 14:22--legit 5k this year

Hunter IS a cross country runner, not a track runner. Forget about him going for sub-4 this year; he should go after Rupp's 5k, and then bring his strength to 10k XC next year.

Hunter is faster than Dathan Ritzenhein in track but not as strong in cross country if they were to race head to head. Ritz won the national cross country titles two years in a row, defeating Alan Webb and other elites by a large margin.

Agreed--maybe he should also go after Rudy Chapa's 10,000 m record--one of the oldest in the books I believe.