Donn Cabral at Graduation

Checkmate, you lose. A family making 60k a year will pay 0 to go to Princeton. 0 tuition, 0 room and board, 0 fees. Even if they win an ESSAY CONTEST! You are a troll. What a grandiose ruse just to try to insult someone. Loser.

i disagree with a lot of what he's saying about admissions and the kinds of kinds who dominate top schools, but this guy is right about scholarship money only helping the very wealthy at princeton and the tiny number of schools with no-loan financial aid

If you get into Princeton and come from a family making less than 60k, the University awards financial aid to cover the total cost of attendance with no loans. This goes for all of the other Ivies as well and while the majority of students at Princeton come from wealthy families over 10% qualify for Pell Grants meaning their family has an efc of under $5500.

dood2899 wrote:

he's so blue collar he doesn't even need the hood on his poncho

Nobody who goes to Princeton is Blue Collar[/quote]

Let me set the record straight. Both of these, and many other comments, on this thread are incorrect and / or mean-spirited.

1. So Blue Collar

Who gives a sh1t if he is blue collar. Not saying Cabral is or isn't, but one's socio-economic background is hardly the criterion on which to judge a person. Cabral as far as I know has blazed a trail of glory in track and cross country that puts him in a very elite group of college runners, both ivy and on a national level. That is achievement enough for me to single him out as an extraordinary individual. The fact he did it while pursuing an academic program at the one of the 2 -3 most difficult schools in the country makes it even far more impressive.

2. Nobody Who Goes to Princeton is Blue Collar

Simply a completely incorrect statement. Princeton and all of the ivies have bent over backwards to diversify their student bodies and among their students are substantial numbers of "blue collar" backgrounds. As a point, in the ivy league, it is typical for 50 - 60% of undergraduates to be getting financial aid , primarily in the form of grants with no payback required from the student. This is why the best ivies (HYP) routinely appear on the list of best "value" colleges. Most undergrads are paying less for HYP than they would if they were going to their in-state state school.

Finally, as far as ivies and scholarships, athletic or otherwise, they don't exist. However, every single student is entitled to financial aid, primarily in the form of grants that don't have to be repaid, i.e., these are not loans, based on their families income and certain assets. The net impact of this generous aid, as stated above, is that 50 - 60% of all undergrads are getting something, with the most needy getting 100%, typically someone from a family with income under $60,000 and modest assets.

Have I made myself clear?

[quote]Tiger Shark wrote:

Is that speaker a Princeton grad? He is terrible. Memorize your speech, man, and deliver it with some style. It's like he's talking about how Davy Crocket is his hero in kindergarten.

As to Cabral, possibly the most ironic one to flash to when talking about spending more time in the classroom than bedroom.

--

Maybe you're referring to the fact that he sleeps in an altitude tent and has to spend a lot of time in it to get the effects? I'm assuming you don't know how much the kid gets laid.

[quote]Tiger Shark wrote:

Is that speaker a Princeton grad? He is terrible. Memorize your speech, man, and deliver it with some style. It's like he's talking about how Davy Crocket is his hero in kindergarten.

As to Cabral, possibly the most ironic one to flash to when talking about spending more time in the classroom than bedroom.

--

Maybe you're referring to the fact that he sleeps in an altitude tent and has to spend a lot of time in it to get the effects? I'm assuming you don't know how much the kid gets laid.

My kid goes to Princeton (one year left). Setting the record straight is absolutely correct. Harvard, Yale and Princeton are very affordable for families making less than 100k a year. Unfortunately (or fortunately), I don't come near qualifying for aid and am paying full price for my kid. One thing about Princeton. They really have worked hard at grade deflation. Students should know what to expect, especially since most arrive with straight A averages and so on in high school. This has not bothered my kid, as she is an exceptional student even by Princeton's standards, but it is yet another facet to the place which is often not well understood. Setting the record straight is again right on in describing Princeton as one of the most difficult schools in the country. By the way, I went to two top 10 US News and World Report ranked national universities, undergrad and grad. I was really lucky to receive the kind of education I did, especially coming from a poverty stricken single mother home. But frankly, in terms of excellence and academic challenge, my schools, as excellent and challenging as they were, do not compare to Princeton. (This may be biased, as I tell myself it is why I am paying for it when my kid could have gone to top 25 ranked schools for free). Cabral indeed deserves accolades.

Yeah, I hear people talking about how affordable Ivies are for working class families. Except, you rarely find working class kids on campus despite it being the best deal of their lives. You'd think the student body would be all Good Will Huntings but instead there's a line across campus to sign up to play club lacrosse.

Wonder why?

Middle Child wrote:

Yeah, I hear people talking about how affordable Ivies are for working class families. Except, you rarely find working class kids on campus despite it being the best deal of their lives. You'd think the student body would be all Good Will Huntings but instead there's a line across campus to sign up to play club lacrosse.

Wonder why?

The answer to this is simple - students of privileged backgrounds still dominate the Ivies because privilege also buys access to private high schools and expensive test prep tutors. Admissions officers do take this context into account, but there is simply no way to justify admitting an 80th percentile SAT applicant when the university frequently rejects students testing in the top 5 (or even 1) percent.

Largely because the myth becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. If kids think Princeton is only for rich kids, then only rich kids apply there. In the district where I work, the guidance counselors have no idea what the aid package to Princeton is like. Kids with great grades and boards whose families make under 100k would never dream of going to such an expensive school when they don't realize they would go there tuition free. The trick is getting in to Princeton, not paying for it. What the other poster said is also true though. Privileged kids are more likely have 4.0 and 2300 than middle and lower class kids. However, a kid with 3.8 and 2100 who has been to Footlocker or NXN would also have a heck of shot. I'd rather be fast and poor trying to get into Princeton than slow and rich. I have seen this work first hand.

Middle Child wrote:

Yeah, I hear people talking about how affordable Ivies are for working class families. Except, you rarely find working class kids on campus despite it being the best deal of their lives. You'd think the student body would be all Good Will Huntings but instead there's a line across campus to sign up to play club lacrosse.

Wonder why?

Middle Child wrote:

Yeah, I hear people talking about how affordable Ivies are for working class families. Except, you rarely find working class kids on campus despite it being the best deal of their lives. You'd think the student body would be all Good Will Huntings but instead there's a line across campus to sign up to play club lacrosse.

Wonder why?

Out of my group of 7 friends at Yale, I would have broken it down this way:

Working class - 2

- Me - mother is a waitress, father small business owner with an associates degree as extent of education

- Friend 1 - both parents are teachers

Middle class to upper middle class - 4

- Friend 2 - father is a rheumatologist

- Friend 3 - father is an attorney

- Friend 4 - father is an attorney, mother is a working professional

- Friend 5 - father is an attorney...they are a family of immigrants from India

Rich - 1

- Friend 6 - father made millions in business and still works

Aside from the rich guy, the extent of the wealth that gets flashed around is that many have nice homes in nice suburbs, that's about it. I'm not seeing the elitism, old boys' network, born-with-a-silver-spoon stereotypes that people like throwing around to describe Ivy League students. It's just well-educated parents producing well-educated children.

We watched football and drank beer and are pretty similar to the typical college kid you'd find at a state school except when it comes to academics we can all put it down.

Interestingly, 10 years out of school now, here's how people turned out:

- Me - actuary

- Son of teachers - teacher

- Son of doctor - doctor

- Immigrant son of lawyer - lawyer in big firm

- Son of lawyer 2 - just graduated law school, has clerkship lined up

- Son of lawyer 3 - has MBA and law degree, works for department of education in his home state

- Son of rich businessman - has law degree, works for his father's company. Was hoping to take it over someday, but Pops doesn't seem to want to retire any time soon.

/I know, cool story bro

record straight is correct wrote:

My kid goes to Princeton (one year left). Setting the record straight is absolutely correct. Harvard, Yale and Princeton are very affordable for families making less than 100k a year.

Is this affordability a recent change? I graduated from HS in 1999, and was accepted at several Ivies (Princeton, Brown, Yale, Cornell, Columbia). I came from a single-mother household-- she was probably making $50k or less. I most definitely was not offered no-loan grants or a free ride like people are talking about in this thread. I was presented with student loans of about $25k per year, with slight variations between schools.

Long story short, I would have come out $100k in debt, so I chose the alternative folks are talking about: minimal cost at good state school.

When did the Ivies start being so generous? I guess it's pointless to complain now, but it sure would have been nice to go to Princeton for free!

Checkmate????

What do you mean Checkmate???

All you did was AGREE with the guy you're apparently arguing with.

He said that most families who make 60k will pay less for the child to attend an Ivy League School than for them to go to a state school.

Your apparently "brilliant" response, was to state that a family who makes 60k will pay NOTHING to go to Princeton...

Well gee...you sure proved HIM wrong didn't you???

Yeah, it's recent that it became so amazing.

Though I'm surprised you didn't get a better deal at Yale, I was only a year ahead of you. My package looked something like:

- Family's contribution was $5,000 per year

- My contribution was $2,000 per year from work study and summer jobs

- I took out $20,000 in loans (over 4 years, not 1 year)

- The rest was Pell Grants, Yale Scholarships, and a scholarship from the Yale Club of the nearest city to me

The full price tag back for everything back then was $25,000-$30,000 a year I think. It felt like a great deal.

Tiger Shark wrote:

Is that speaker a Princeton grad? He is terrible.

Thanks for your advice! Do you feel better now?

Boston Terrier wrote:

Checkmate, you lose. A family making 60k a year will pay 0 to go to Princeton. 0 tuition, 0 room and board, 0 fees. Even if they win an ESSAY CONTEST! You are a troll. What a grandiose ruse just to try to insult someone. Loser.

I hope you know that you are NOT actually providing a valid point to contradict the poster you're addressing.

I'll assume that you're calling him a "troll" because he claimed that scholarships don't benefit anyone but the extremely rich in the Ivy League population.

Your evidence, apparently, is that a family making 60k a year will pay nothing to go to Princeton.

I hope you do realize that this estimated $0 in contribution is NOT actually achieved through a scholarship.

When an Ivy League School claims that a student's family has $0 in contributions, this does not mean that the school itself will provide a scholarship for the student.

Rather, $0 in contributions is achieved through a number of means that include Federal Pell Grants, Federal Work Study Programs, Federal Directly Subsidized Stafford Loans, Federal Unsubsidized Stafford Loans, etc.

It would take a stroke of extreme fortune for a student to actually be given a scholarship for the $58,000 required each year to study at an Ivy League (note that this includes room and board, school-funded health insurance, etc.)

working class wrote:

Yeah, it's recent that it became so amazing.

Though I'm surprised you didn't get a better deal at Yale, I was only a year ahead of you. My package looked something like:

- Family's contribution was $5,000 per year

- My contribution was $2,000 per year from work study and summer jobs

- I took out $20,000 in loans (over 4 years, not 1 year)

- The rest was Pell Grants, Yale Scholarships, and a scholarship from the Yale Club of the nearest city to me

The full price tag back for everything back then was $25,000-$30,000 a year I think. It felt like a great deal.

I seem to recall a price tag for everything (tuition, room/board) in the high 30's. I would have received grants of about $15-20k, and been left with a loan bill of $15-20k, depending on the school. Bummer!

alfons declerq wrote:

Is this affordability a recent change? I graduated from HS in 1999, and was accepted at several Ivies (Princeton, Brown, Yale, Cornell, Columbia). I came from a single-mother household-- she was probably making $50k or less. I most definitely was not offered no-loan grants or a free ride like people are talking about in this thread. I was presented with student loans of about $25k per year, with slight variations between schools.

Long story short, I would have come out $100k in debt, so I chose the alternative folks are talking about: minimal cost at good state school.

When did the Ivies start being so generous? I guess it's pointless to complain now, but it sure would have been nice to go to Princeton for free!

i believe the no-loan policy for families under a certain income level is a relatively new trend at the top schools

Wrong, it is all a grant. this is not an opinion, it is fact. Estimated total coast is not 58 grand, it's 49.5. This is 100% covered for a family that makes 60 grand or under by "grant."

"A grant does not have to be repaid. Some grants are referred to as 'scholarships' or 'gift aid'."

This above quote comes directly from Princeton financial aid literature. Why on Earth would people argue so vociferously for something they obvious know nothing about. I understand trolls but trolls are deliberate. I think people like "seyta" are not only stupid but rapidly defensive of their right to be so.