Colleges scared of high mileage?

crazy streaker wrote:

Once you get above 80-85 coaches dont love it from what I have heard.

What sense does that make? If you started running in the 7th grade and put in years of:

7th 1000mi

8th 1500mi

9th 2000mi

10th 2500mi

11th 3000mi

12th 3500mi

You're going to need to put in lots of 90mi weeks that last year. An athlete who followed a plan like this and kept the intensity in check would be leaps and bounds beyond their peers in development. They would perform and more consistently than peers with less background.

Yeesh, 15-25 miles a week is pretty damn low for XC. Do you think you could talk to your coach about letting you do some more mileage than the rest of the team?

I have, my coach is pretty upset about the idea of me running a lot. He said the maximum I should run in the off-season is 40 miles a week. If I run more then I run the risk of burn-out, and injury. I have the in-season mileage thing covered though. I have 5th and 6th hour study hall, and 7th hour release. As a senior I can sign out for 5th and 6th hour if I have a 3.0 GPA, so I was planning on getting 5-8 miles in before xc even starts. On hard workout days, I might get the mileage in after xc. In the end I'll still get 70+ miles a week in during xc.

To answer someone else I'm from Wisconsin. We have a pretty weak state as far as distance running. So, top three overall at state will be about 15:50 5k for most years. As for college, I'd like to go somewhere with good academics as well as a good running program. So, if I'm good enough, I'll visit some colleges and make my decision then.

A lot of hs runners come to college as frosh and get blown out of the water because they jump their mileage up, have trouble adjusting to a new training environment, etc. The guys who run 70mpw + in hs generally adjust better and soon can be running 100mpw at times during their frosh/soph years in college. This is good, as long as they don't get injured of course. You're not going to just "burn-out" running high mileage. Burn-out can be mental, but if you are determined to continue improving in running you have to keep increasing either your mileage or intensity (mileage usually first until about 125mpw). Running too hard is what leads to burn out mainly.

When you tell college coaches how much you've been running just round down a little. I mean, you don't have to lie...just count your miles at 8min/mile because you never know exactly how much you are running, right?

It takes years for that mileage to really kick in. Think ahead 3-4 years from now of where you want to be. Have some sort of long-term goals that keep you motivated to train today....put money (miles) in the bank now, and then maybe after 3 years of 50 weeks of training/year and many 100 mile weeks you'll start to see your full potential.

15:50 for 5k would probably be fairly easy to do running between 70-80 mpw. At the end of my highschool years I stopped running for my coach because he was intensity based and I am a high mileage person. He wanted me doing the same stuff, 40 mpw with lots of speed work. I hated it, so I did my own thing. I got up to 70-80 for about 5 weeks(i worked up from 35mpw adding 5 more miles each week). I also did a lot of tempos and fartleks and "cruise intervals". I ended up running 4:03 (1500) and 15:36 5k on the same day. I was also able to adjust much easier to the college running load and ran some good times my freshmen year. If you want send me an e-mail and i can try to help you out more. I think that is my new e-mail address, if it doesn't work let me know.

My question is why do you need to run 100-110 miles a week for a 8k-10k? Does not make sense? I am a college coach and I think 70-80 in the summer time is just fine and no more than 80 or so during early season. And this is for upperclassmen! No way a frosh coming in should be running 100 miles a week!! They will be dead come the end of XC and have absolutely no legs come outdoor track. Its a progression from frosh year to a senior year. Give me a kid that ran 9:50 off of 40-50 miles a week in HS over a kid that ran 9:30 off of 75 miles a week anyday!

In my opinion burning out, which I experienced in HS, does not come from high mileage per say, but rather running too hard too frequently. Running high mileage could lead to this, but not necessarily. Like has been said, listen to your body and recognize each run for what it is and what it's purpose is.

Sorry if I missed this but how fast are you running most of your mileage and what are your PR's?

hmmmmmithink wrote:

My question is why do you need to run 100-110 miles a week for a 8k-10k? Does not make sense? I am a college coach and I think 70-80 in the summer time is just fine and no more than 80 or so during early season. And this is for upperclassmen! No way a frosh coming in should be running 100 miles a week!! They will be dead come the end of XC and have absolutely no legs come outdoor track. Its a progression from frosh year to a senior year. Give me a kid that ran 9:50 off of 40-50 miles a week in HS over a kid that ran 9:30 off of 75 miles a week anyday!

You realize that:

-the best 5000m/10000m runners in the world run 120-150 mpw for much of the year?

-mileage doesn't make someone "dead"?

-most people who train smart and run a lot perform more consistently and run faster at all distances because endurance is a key component of all events above 60m?

-and that kids who run more in high school are more likely to stay in the sport than kids who don't train much?

When I say burn-out I refer to anaerobic staleness. I know that kind of burn out doesnt come from lots of aerobic mileage.

I ran 9:59 for 3200 this year in april. At the end of the season I was easily in 9:50 or faster shape, but got a sinus infection and had to take about 8 days off before regionals/sectionals and got my droors blown off. At best I was in shape for a 9:45.

I don't usually carry a watch for my miles, but when I do an "easy" ten miler they range from 66 minutes to 75 minutes. My recovery day is well above 7:45/mile, usually north of 8:15. I think I usually hover around 7 minute mile pace running comfortably, however, I could be way off. My tempos are different every week. I use our 5k XC course as my place for a tempo every saturday. I'm usually about 5:40-50 per mile when I do a 3-4 mile tempo. Sometimes like this past weekend my legs are dead, or its super hot/humid so I don't run as fast.

Your recovery days are way, way too slow. Your body can recover doing 6:45's/mile dude. Unless you plan on running with your mother, there is no reason to do 8:00/miles.

Recovery days are different for everyone...but if you read articles from wejo,goucher,or hall(all somewhere on the front page if still there) they should be alot slower than most people think. if you run 15:00 5k...7-7:30 is just fine for recovery runs...but pace doesnt matter on them...if you feel like goin 9min pace, go for it...just run what feels comfortable....if you think you need to run a certain pace, like 6:45 for recover runs. if you think about it, it makes no sense.

Just like last year right wrote:

Your recovery days are way, way too slow. Your body can recover doing 6:45's/mile dude. Unless you plan on running with your mother, there is no reason to do 8:00/miles.

Bullshit. Do you know how many world class runners JOG recovery runs? Haile Gebrselassie will run 7-7:30/mi on his recovery runs.

and there's this quote from Renato Canova:

"I want to remember that Kenyans have a very high mileage BEFORE BEGINNING THEIR OFFICIAL ACTIVITY. They run (no more so much today, because there are more schools and also in Kenya some car for bringing guys to school...) from when are 4-5 years old a lot of miles, that build their aerobic resistance. For example, speaking about Kwalia, he went to a school (from 6 to 16 years) 8 km far from his house, coming back in the late morning for eating at home. SO, EVERY DAY WERE ABOUT 32 KM !

Therefore, his clear that they don't need more long basic training, but specific workouts. However, they use very long run at slow pace for regenerating their energies and "washing" their muscles from lactate, running in very elastic way, like american sprinters.

An example : when I trained Kenneth Kimwetich (1'43"03 on 800m and 2'13"56 on 1000m, able running in about 46" and probably 3'45" but not faster 1500m), the day after specific workouts (I use 3-4 times a SPECIAL BLOCK during the main season, for preparing specific high intensity endurance : f.e., 6 x 1000m in 2'33" / 2'36" with 4 min recovery in the morning, 500 (1'03") / 400 (49") / 300 (35") / 200 (22"5)with 6-7 min recovery in the afternoon) he used to go running in the forrest disappearing for about 3 hours. When I asked him where he were going, he answering "To run 3 hours", at a pace of 6' per km, that for us is very difficult to use because we become bored.

So, I explained him (and also to the other athletes, like David Lelei (3'31" in 1500m) and Christopher Koskei himself (winner of steeple in Seville and older brother of Cherono) that, following our methodology, could be better to run only 1 hr for regenerating. But, when they went with my suggestions, the day after were not able to run well ; instead, after their 3 hours, they were able to do every type of lactic work. So, I decided that they could use what preferred for recovering hard training.

You must think that running in a wonderful ambience like a forrest is something extremely pleasant, and of sure has nothing to do with running among cars on a road like in Italy, for example. In the forrest, everybody ENJOY RUNNING.

So, it's not a discrepancy to hear Konchellah saying that HE WANTS TO GO FOR LONG RUN (regeneration), BUT DOESN'T LIKE LONG FAST RUN !

Another thing that you must know is that the groups of training are mixed. For ex., in Iten the old group in 1999 was with Kimwetich (1'43"), Lelei (3'31"), Koskei (8'05" in steeple), Moses Kigen (3'32"), Moiben (2:10 in Marathon), Jackson Koech (62' HM) and some other young. During the first period of preparation, they ran together long run (only difference, the duration, from 15 km for Kimwetich to 30 km for Moiben) and fartlek (classic 1 min fast / 1 min slow, where slow is really jogging). This fact is one of the reasons because their preparation never was very good, and only thru the races they were able to reach a high level of shape.

On of the reasons of current improvements of our athletes is that now Bungei, Mutua, Yiampoy, Shaheen, Kwalia, Kemboi, Nyamu, John Korir, Paul Kosgei, Robert Rono and all the young guys winners of medals in Youth Championships (Esho and Kiplangat, Choge, Ronald Kipchumba and Justus Kiprono) learnt to use more individual and targetted training during winter season, so are able to improve their qualities during a period in the past dedicated to rest or jogging without any specific goal."

all high mileage does is teach you how to run long and slow, and cause injury. DONT DO IT.

hmmmmmithink wrote:

My question is why do you need to run 100-110 miles a week for a 8k-10k? Does not make sense? I am a college coach and I think 70-80 in the summer time is just fine and no more than 80 or so during early season. And this is for upperclassmen! No way a frosh coming in should be running 100 miles a week!! They will be dead come the end of XC and have absolutely no legs come outdoor track. Its a progression from frosh year to a senior year. Give me a kid that ran 9:50 off of 40-50 miles a week in HS over a kid that ran 9:30 off of 75 miles a week anyday!

I can understand if you're in favor of quality mileage over quantity or if you're arguing that some of your runners respond better to lower mileage, but I can't understand how you can be a college coach and have none of your runners run over 80 miles per week because you think they'll burn out. And that you legimately seem to believe that 100 miles is too much training for a 10k. You, sir, sound like a complete donkey (unfortunately you're not alone in the college coaching profession) and I'll take all those 9:30 kids you're turning down for 9:50 kids and stomp your team every year.

"You'd be better served running 80 miles a week in addition to some form of supplemental training, like drills, strength work, plyos, etc."

This is whats wrong with the U.S....Last time I checked you dont do high knees during a 5k. Gerry is dead on when he says people are just looking for short cuts. JUST RUN!

Well, I think they are fine. Before anyone even said anything I have read wejos speal on high slow mileage reducing injuries. It was a good article and convinced me to train without a watch, and to take my recovery days SUPER easy. I used to run them at 6:50-7:00. At that time though I was also forcing myself to run faster and faster everytime I laced up my shoes. I'm not scared of high mileage, but I worry that a college I would like to run for would be scared of the mileage I'm running, hence the question.

To the430miler, I run high mileage because I know that high healthy mileage over a long period of time is what will give me the greatest success in running. I don't know what I do in college, but I know my body and I know I'm better suited for a 10k rather than a 1500 (I ran 4:52 all out for 1600 this year and 9:59 for 3200, both were run on the same track).

The only thing I do worry about occasionally is if I'm stressing my body too much too quickly. I ran a few 80 mile weeks in singles and added double days to make it 110. I'd like to continue rising above that if possible, but I'm a little nervous because my legs aren't exactly mileage hardened.

Off topic question for anyone who is still reading this thread. When you first started running higher miles did your legs gain size? My calfs are getting bigger, but my thighs are just getting more cut and veinier(sp). Is this bad?