1st Marathon: How Much Can I Improve?

Assuming you are not a professional, you can probably run 3-4 marathons a year. Depending on where you want to run, it might be better to run in spring like March, April, May if you don't like the heat.

We'll need to know if you are male or female to judge your Boston time.

Male 18-34 will need to run under 3 hours(You'll need to improve over an hour) while female 18-34 will need to run under 3 hours 30 minutes(You only need to improve by about half an hour!). So women have it a little easier with 30 minutes extra.

You can try the Higdon training again or you can try the Hanson plan. There are many plans out there, but it is usually work hard Tuesday/Thursday (Intervals, Tempos, Fartleks, Hills, etc...), Wednesday are rest or cross training, Monday and Friday are easy runs, Saturday and Sunday are usually longer runs with varying degrees of pushing the pace.

Running 4:07 for your first marathon, in the heat and humidity, is quite good, especially on relatively low mileage. I ran my second marathon six weeks after my first, and dropped more than 20 minutes. Experience at the distance, plus the training effect of that "26-mile long run," I think made a big difference (especially since, like you, my training was low-mileage).

Allen1959 wrote:

I ran my second marathon six weeks after my first, and dropped more than 20 minutes.

I should add that it took another year to realize only a 12-minute improvement from there. And that was my lifetime best, as I stopped training seriously. But 35 years later, I went from 3:25 to 3:07 in 12 months by doubling my mileage (20 mpw to 40+) and adding workouts. So, you never know until you try! Good luck.

A good rule of thumb for most runners and personally what I have seen over the years:

Take your first ever untrained marathon time and with appropriate and sustained training, it is possible to run a marathon an hour faster while fully trained for the distance.

1. 2020. Do not hop right back into marathon training. You've only been running for a year. Spend 2019 working on shorter races.

2. Yes you can. It will probably take 2-3 years. Developing aerobic endurance just takes time.

3. My impression of Higdon plans is that they're just a step up from couch-to-5K plans, mostly targeting people who want to finish a marathon. And you did successfully finish. Lately I've been comparing marathon plans, and for a second-time marathoner, I think the Hansons' plans offer some good choices. Read the book so you understand their thinking and how the whole system works. I haven't followed a Hanson plan myself, but they seem more approachable than a Daniels or Pfitzinger plan, at least at first glance. Your consistency and weekly mileage are more important than any specific plan right now, and not getting injured is even more important than that.

my theory: ignore the thon and the "lure" of a BQ

become a runner, develop 'speed' over mid/shorter distances [400-5k]

Get to a fitness level perhaps equivalent to a BQ for your AG [eg 19 minute 5k], and never worry about the thon again. It is terrible, will injury you, and is not beneficial health/fitness wise. The lure of a BQ destroys more hobby joggers than anything.

Run the ~35 mpw, but target general fitness/5K speed, and be so much the fitter/healthier for it, and take the thon plan and throw it in the trash

If I were to stick to shorter races this year, what do you advise? 5K and 10K only? Or can I do a half marathon?

Self time-trialed 400-5k

Road 5k/10k

Race a road half if you must (I guess targetting 1:26-1:30 or so if you must use the BQ measuring stick)

Go for a 60-65s 400 or 5:00-5:30 mile or 19 minute 5k instead I'm of anything longer

The 400, mile, and 5k represent pillars of speed, mid-d and shorter endurance

And you won't spend weeks and months injured

sit and kick wrote:

my theory: ignore the thon and the "lure" of a BQ

become a runner, develop 'speed' over mid/shorter distances [400-5k]

Get to a fitness level perhaps equivalent to a BQ for your AG [eg 19 minute 5k], and never worry about the thon again. It is terrible, will injury you, and is not beneficial health/fitness wise. The lure of a BQ destroys more hobby joggers than anything.

Run the ~35 mpw, but target general fitness/5K speed, and be so much the fitter/healthier for it, and take the thon plan and throw it in the trash

Not able to get a BQ huh?

No, not even close lol (10 minutes)

Agree with others that you should put in a year or two of consistent 40-50 MPW training, peaking for some 5K to half marathon races before dipping your toes in the marathon waters again. You likely will take 30+ minutes off your time.

What would a 40-50 mpw schedule look like? Should I just do all of the runs at an easy pace, or would this include speed work as well? Thanks for all of the advice. It is very much appreciated.

I get bored doing everything at the same pace, so I might do 50 mile week like:

Mo: Rest day

Tu: 2 mile warm-up / 8x800m at 5K pace, 2:00 rest / 2 mile cool-down

We: 4-6 easy

Th: 2 mile warm-up / 3x2 mile at half marathon pace, jog half mile in between / 2 mile cool-down

Fr: 4-6 easy

Sa: 12-14 miles easy

Su: 6-7 miles easy

Doing work at 5K pace might not be necessary every week, so you can swap that out for an ~8 mile easy run every other week if you get sore.

I'm 33 as well, and I really like the 10K distance. If you've done a marathon, it should feel pretty short, but it requires enough endurance that I can hold my own against many of the 20-somethings who have more speed than me. I'd concur with the advice above to spend a while working on that.

Once you get back to marathon training, another thing that helped me out was alternating on long runs- one week, I'd just go for distance, and the next week I'd go a bit short with the middle chunk at my target race pace. e.g. near the peak of the training plan, you might do 20 miles one week, and then next week do 4 miles easy, 8 at race pace, and 4 more easy.

first of all, if you're upfront and honest like you've been, you won't get flamed much.

at 5'10", 155 you don't have the frame of an elite runner but plenty of guys run very fast at that BMI. you probably know if you have weight to lose or not. don't listen to anybody online who hasn't seen your body.

1. the general trend is to run 2 marathons/year. you need time to recover and then rebuild training. you could run more but then you wouldn't improve much each time. so better to do just 2/year and you can expect to keep getting faster every time. June would be sort of early but it's fine, especially if you already know a race that you want to do in June. the weather should be good during your training, which will help.

2. nobody can know how fast you will get with the info you provided. genetics are important no matter how hard you train, but even with poor genetics (for running) you could probably get close to 3 hours within a few years. if you do have good running genetics/mechanics, you could get down to ~3hrs in a year or two. maybe more, maybe less. it sort of depends on how you ran that 4:07. maybe you walked the last few miles, or maybe you ran as fast as you possibly could that day.

3. basically, you should probably do a similar training plan with a couple things added, and with overall more running on average. 35 mpw isn't enough, but you can't just immediately go to more mileage. you need to build up to it slowly. 50 mpw would be a good amount for your 2nd marathon. maybe 6-8 weeks to build up to 50 and then stay around 54-55 for another 6 weeks. there are many factors here. speedwork could help, but the most important thing is to stay motivated, stay healthy, and to keep running consistently. speedwork is low on the list of priorities.

feel free to email me (click my blue username above). I'd be happy to give you more detail or help you pick a goal marathon.

Jimmy,

Thanks for your input. That seems like a very doable schedule. I agree with you about getting bored at one pace. Save for the bi-weekly “pace” workout, I ran everything on the Higdon plan in basically the same way.

Tyler

I ran today for the first time since my marathon last Sunday. While it was only 2.5 miles, I felt good and will gradually increase my mileage starting this week.

Many of you recommended that I put in a year or two or consistent 50 mpw before attempting another marathon. I purchased Pfitzinger’s book, “Faster Road Racing”. In this book, he has several base training schedules. He also has specific training plans for various distances.

I would like to run a half marathon the last week of April. Is that advisable? My thought was to do one of Pfitzinger’s 12-week half marathon plans, and then spend the summer concentrating on the base training. Is that a good idea, or should I just skip the half marathon and stick solely to base training for the rest of 2019?

Nothing against Higdon, but I have more faith in Pfitzinger for someone who would like to get serious about it.

I went from 4:00 to 2:40 which I still was not happy with.

trb2100 wrote:

I ran today for the first time since my marathon last Sunday. While it was only 2.5 miles, I felt good and will gradually increase my mileage starting this week.

Many of you recommended that I put in a year or two or consistent 50 mpw before attempting another marathon. I purchased Pfitzinger’s book, “Faster Road Racing”. In this book, he has several base training schedules. He also has specific training plans for various distances.

I would like to run a half marathon the last week of April. Is that advisable? My thought was to do one of Pfitzinger’s 12-week half marathon plans, and then spend the summer concentrating on the base training. Is that a good idea, or should I just skip the half marathon and stick solely to base training for the rest of 2019?

I am not familiar with specific marathon plans "pfitzinger, hansons, etc", but feel like I know enough about running to chime in...

Some posters have said it is a good idea to work on base and building up for a while to really improve your marathon time, which is true. But you can still race during this time. You could even pick a specific marathon, half marathon, or even 5k/10k plan and a goal race in april or whenever and follow that plan. In doing so, just try to challenge yourself a little bit with the volume and increase here and there in a gradual manner. This way you have a short term goal/race to train for, but you know it's all for the bigger goal of running a faster marathon. Up the mileage and train for a 5k via faster workouts and you'll probably still be able to PR in the marathon after that, assuming you upped the overall mileage. Heck you could even do a 5k plan and just make it a point to work on long runs and mileage and otherwise follow the plan. You're free to tweak plans and make your training what you want it to be.