New Year's resolution for 2019: running a 10k in 39:59 by 31st december :-)!

I think something like 12 miles with average pace slower than 10/mile is not helping at all. I understand you want easy, but boy that is way too easy (unless this was really hilly trail or something). Especially when it looks like it was nearly a third of your weekly running.

Ok after looking at your week a little more closely, in my non professional opinion you're trying to do too much "quality." I am similar age and had similar goals and managed to do them easily, and I didn't do any structured workouts at all (and under 40mpw).

I don't think the times you and I are (or were) after necessitate hard work outs. Here's what I did:

1) Run by feel. An easy run is still the fastest pace I can manage where my breathing is easy. For me this was in the lower 8s per mile.

2) Find a trail with some elevation changes and run it once per week.

3) Negative split EVERY RUN. This doesn't mean you blast the second half, but it teaches you how to pace. If you go out for a routine 20km run and can't negative split, then you went out too fast. I run in km even though I'm in US for this reason. No matter how far the run was, I tried to make each 5k faster than last. Do a 15km run and have splits of 25/24/23:20 for instance.

4) 1 day per week where you "go hard." I hesitate to use the word "tempo" because it means so many things, but for instance I might do a 20km run where I start at 4:40km (7:40 /mi?) and then the last 5k would be down around 4:15/km (6:50 mile?).

Now even though I never really ever ran faster than 4:15/km, I was still able to race a half marathon faster than that (many times on many different courses). Several of those I ran sub 40 in the first 10k even.

Each week:

1. Long run - 8-12 miles, once a week run a bit shorter at marathon pace, but otherwise keep it easy pace

2. Tempo run - One week run it for 20:00 at close to 10k pace, the next week run it for 40:00 at half marathon pace

3. Intervals - Short intervals early in your training (200-400 m repeats @ mile pace) with full jogging recoveries. Then switch to longer intervals for VO2max training (5 x 1 km @ 5k pace with 3:00 jogging recoveries) for about a month. Then in the final month leading up to your 10k race, run longer intervals like 3 x 2 miles @ 10k pace with walk/jog recoveries between those repeats.

4. Easy runs - 2-4 per week to round out weekly mileage, with strides incorporated at the end of any easy session if you are feeling healthy and strong

The long runs build endurance, the tempo runs build stamina, the intervals build speed and speed endurance. The two types of tempos and the 3 x 2 mile intervals will be race-specific training that you must nail in the lead up to the race. Don't kill yourself on the long run or easy runs. Save it for the tempos and race pace repeats.

So, the first thing I noticed is how slow you are running your mileage days. Your goal race pace is 6:20ish, yet you are training almost 4 minutes slower than that. Never in my life have I heard of that approach.

I am 43 and while I didn't race a 10k last year, I did do 4 mile tempo runs in like 25:00-25:30, so I'm pretty confident I could have gone sub 40. My training pace on my absolute slowest recovery days was 8:30 or faster. My normal mileage days were all sub 8 pace.

I think you may be falling into the LSD mentality. Seriously. Junk miles are not beneficial. They look great on your mpw chart, but they don't boost your aerobic system.

Thanks for your reply.

The 12 miles long run was done on a trail hilly course and during the night.

I did not run consistently for 6 months, so I am a bit out of shape.

Thanks for your reply.

My 12 miles run was on a hilly trail course.

I will have a hard time doing a negative split on my 12 miles long run, because the trail is hilly. Up for 5 miles, then down for 1 mile, Up for 1 mile, Down for 1 mile, Up for 1 mile and Down for 3 miles.

It will be difficult for me to do that 20km run starting at 4:40km (7:40 /mi?) and then the last 5k around 4:15/km (6:50 mile). I am really rusty at the beginning of each run and it takes me at least 40 minutes to settle in a good pace.

How many times you are training during a week and how much mileage in average?

With aging, I can feel that it takes me more time to recover from "hard" workouts.

Thanks for your reply.

I will try to follow this training.

Monday: Easy Run

Tuesday: Intervals Short/Long

Wednesday: Middle Run

Thursday: Tempo Run 20min/40min

Friday: Easy Run

Saturday: Hills

Sunday: Long Run

I have some questions:

Short intervals early in your training (200-400 m repeats @ mile pace) with full jogging recoveries => That means 5 minutes?

3 x 2 miles @ 10k pace with walk/jog recoveries between those repeats => That means 5 minutes?

Easy runs - 2-4 per week to round out weekly mileage, with strides incorporated at the end of any easy session if you are feeling healthy and strong => For the strides 10x100 meters is it ok?

Tempo run - One week run it for 20:00 at close to 10k pace, => That means I should aim for 6:38/mile?

Tempo run -the next week run it for 40:00 at half marathon pace => What should be the pace?

Intervals - Short intervals early in your training (200-400 m repeats @ mile pace) with full jogging recoveries. => That means 5:32/mile?

longer intervals for VO2max training (5 x 1 km @ 5k pace with 3:00 jogging recoveries). => That means 5:58/mile?

Thanks for your reply.

The reasons I am slow for my long run are that I am out of shape (did not run consistently for 6 months), it is a hilly trail course and I run during the night. I should be able to correct that I hope soon and average 8-9min/mile.

Ok, I will try to go under sub 8 pace for my normal days.

I agree junk miles are not useful.

shouldn't be a problem if you train smart and race fast! Good luck! Cheers from Australia! If you need help let me know.

Thanks for your reply.

Yes, I will try to train smart, that's the reason I launched this thread.

When you train on your own, you can easily repeat the same mistakes over and over.

That's where it is good to have outside views from others runners.

Australia never been there, but the landscapes seem amazing.

For my part, I am in France.

snapping_turtle wrote:

Thanks for your reply.

The reasons I am slow for my long run are that I am out of shape (did not run consistently for 6 months), it is a hilly trail course and I run during the night. I should be able to correct that I hope soon and average 8-9min/mile.

Ok, I will try to go under sub 8 pace for my normal days.

I agree junk miles are not useful.

It's not strictly about pace. If your pace is 10/mi but the terrain is tough, then only you will be able to assess the effort you put in.

When I talk about running easy at 8:30/mi (or faster), I should have clarified this is on relatively flat asphalt. Also, you just need to negative split, I gave paces as an example of the times I would run when I was already able to run sub 40. You will have to start at whatever pace you can handle for now.

Thanks for your feedbacks.

I have a run on a flat dirt course tonight.

It will not be great, I am still feeling really sore from my 12 miles hilly run of sunday.

And I am really wondering if I should go or take a day off.

Anyway I will see what pace I can handle.

Fix A Flat wrote:

So, the first thing I noticed is how slow you are running your mileage days. Your goal race pace is 6:20ish, yet you are training almost 4 minutes slower than that. Never in my life have I heard of that approach.

I am 43 and while I didn't race a 10k last year, I did do 4 mile tempo runs in like 25:00-25:30, so I'm pretty confident I could have gone sub 40. My training pace on my absolute slowest recovery days was 8:30 or faster. My normal mileage days were all sub 8 pace.

I think you may be falling into the LSD mentality. Seriously. Junk miles are not beneficial. They look great on your mpw chart, but they don't boost your aerobic system.

Serious question:

Then why do all the articles, calculators suggest them?

Entering 42:43 10k to this calculator:

says:

Easy 9:42 - 9:22

VDOT:

Easy 08:31 - 08:59

Ok, it's not 10:10 pace, but neither it is "all sub 8".

Thanks for your reply.

The training pace you are giving are based on my last 10k 42:43.

If I am aiming for 39:59 for 10k, these paces should decrease no?

Monday 07th january

I did not run.

I was feeling very sore, I think saturday hills session and sunday 12 miles took a great toll on me.

Tuesday 08th january

5x(5x200 meters) with 30 secondes rest

Times of 1 set of 5 => 47"/47"/46"/47"/48"

Times of 2 set of 5 => 46"/48"/51"/46"/46"

Times of 3 set of 5 => 43"/45"/46"/48"/50"

Times of 4 set of 5 => 44"/46"/45"/44"/48"

Times of 5 set of 5 => 46"/46"/40"/47"/45"

I have no access to a track, so I did that on a dirt road.

Did some stretching after today session, feel great no body aches so far ...

Take two rest days a week or you will get injured.

Thanks for your reply.

I was targeting to do at least 50 miles per week.

But if I take 2 rest days per week, I will have a hard time reaching this mileage?

I do not think I can run a 10k in 40 minutes on low weekly mileage, not enough talented.

I agree with you, I have to be cautious not to be injured in the process.

Wednesday 09th january 2019

Easy 6 Miles on a hilly dirt road

Average pace; 9:47/mile

Average HR: 153

Sensations were mixed, low level of tiredness, but the legs were not moving fast.

Thursday 10th January 2019

Tempo 20 minutes on dirt road

Average pace: 7:33/mile

=> Really hard to maintain the pace

Friday 11th January 2019

Easy Run 6 miles + 12x100 meters on asphalt

Pace for easy run 7:54/mile

=> Feel fresh good after this session