running a 2:19 marathon off 55 miles/week

It has been done. I have a friend who did 2:17 on 40-50 a week in 3-4 runs, usually with a weekend 20, a couple 10s and sometimes another 5-10.

Jack Foster ran a 2:11 marathon off that kind of volume,he usually peaked at 80 miles. Though he did a lot of biking, I believe he biked to work.

Of course it`s more than possible. But not for every runner. It depends a lot of talent and the right ingredients. I have coached a Kenyan young runner on 55 mpw the last 3 years and he ran recently

a 30km 1:32 hours as a pacemaker. He was not allowed to run to the finish but he told me he felt strong after 30 km and probably could have continue to a 2:09- 2:10 marathon time. But I would suggest you to run your weekly 55 miles on 6 days and cut most of the elliptical and XC ski. To be a good runner you mostly have to run......Good luck!

- Swedish pro running coach -

In an attempt to elaborate on the previous post, you will be missing the "specificity" element of high mileage marathon training by doing too much cross training (elliptical, bike, XC ski, etc.). Most people have a point of diminishing return on weekly mileage (injury, burnout, plateau, etc.). You'll have to find out where that "sweet spot" is of "not too much" high mileage. If it is 55 mpw, then you'll have to increase the quality of your workouts to work within that weekly mileage constraint. But there's a similar hazard of injury, burnout, plateau, etc. to contend with.

Thanks for your advice. I totally realize that running is the most specific training you can do is the goal is to RUN. However, it wouldn't be beneficial to spend more time training my aerobic system through other modalities? I just figured that if I were to only run 55-60 miles/week that I'd need to supplement my running with other forms of aerobic training. Is the worry that the XT would take away from my quality of my hard run specific training days?

That is my training schedule but I only run 3:19. See what a dumb question it is . Rupp could run 2:09, Brogan Austin would run 2:19, you would run 2:39, and my mother would run 5:19.

Who would that be HRE?

OP, I struggled with injuries while running 100-110 miles off of 10 runs a week. I eventually switched to 6 runs a week with 3 to 4 sessions on the rowing machine, but I still target the same number of minutes weekly when combing the two sources compared to when I was strictly running. I’ve been injury free for 3.5 years on this approach, and have improved my PRs too. Generally I get close to 80 running miles per week, and will max out at 90 (lowest in training block will be 60 running miles when running 5 days a week).

You can certainly improve this way, but if you haven’t tried running 5 or 6 days a week yet (e.g., 5 running day/70 running miles a week), I’d recommend trying to do that before committing to 4 days. I do feel the extra runs, even if at a slow pace, are beneficial. And as for running 2:19, certainly doable. I’ve gotten fairly close on reduced running, and hope to get under that mark next year. Happy to share a 5 running days a week sample from my last build up if you’d like.

Carl Spackler wrote:

In an attempt to elaborate on the previous post, you will be missing the "specificity" element of high mileage marathon training by doing too much cross training (elliptical, bike, XC ski, etc.). Most people have a point of diminishing return on weekly mileage (injury, burnout, plateau, etc.). You'll have to find out where that "sweet spot" is of "not too much" high mileage. If it is 55 mpw, then you'll have to increase the quality of your workouts to work within that weekly mileage constraint. But there's a similar hazard of injury, burnout, plateau, etc. to contend with.

Some comments on this:

1) It`s a misunderstanding by many that effective optimal marathon training must involve high mileage.

2) Too many runners and coaches are looking for the upper limit of "that sweet spot" of "not to much". And often this search lead to injuries and overload.

The time has come to instead look for that "sweet spot" where the mileage is enough to complete the necessary quality work in a well balanced mix where the runner just keep on to develop.

If you do this low mileage concept individual right there `s not a similar hazard of injury,burnout,plateau, etc. compared to the high mileage way.

Its egun wrote:

Who would that be HRE?

I doubt his name will mean much to you. It's Bernie Allen who was 9th at Boston in 1974 in 2:17 and change. There was also a Scotsman a few years before that who got under 2:20 a few times and really only trained every other day though he did do a couple miles on intervening days.

HRE wrote:

Its egun wrote:

Who would that be HRE?

I doubt his name will mean much to you. It's Bernie Allen who was 9th at Boston in 1974 in 2:17 and change. There was also a Scotsman a few years before that who got under 2:20 a few times and really only trained every other day though he did do a couple miles on intervening days.

You are correct.

It turns out that no one can remember this 'runner guy' from 1974 . . . or they are already dead.

It also turns out that no one at LetsRun.com gives a sh*t about this 'runner guy' at the present time.

Have a nice day!!!

If someone is wondering if it's possible to run a marathon in 2:19 off of 55 miles a week I would think they might be interested in knowing that someone actually ran a bit faster on a bit less mileage. But I gather you polled everyone at Letsrun and found that absolutely no one gives a crap at the present time. Sorry you had to read that post of mine then. But when you were taking your poll did you also ask if anyone was interested in Alastair Wood and his 50 or so a week routine?

AhChoo.ahha wrote:

HRE wrote:

I doubt his name will mean much to you. It's Bernie Allen who was 9th at Boston in 1974 in 2:17 and change. There was also a Scotsman a few years before that who got under 2:20 a few times and really only trained every other day though he did do a couple miles on intervening days.

You are correct.

It turns out that no one can remember this 'runner guy' from 1974 . . . or they are already dead.

It also turns out that no one at LetsRun.com gives a sh*t about this 'runner guy' at the present time.

Have a nice day!!!

Well.......It looks like most runners are here to embrace themselves it must be done by high mileage to reach your

individual optimal performance. So many former runners have shown it can be done on just relatively low mileage.

But the high mileage brigade refusing to realize that is the case.

Low mileage results in slow times, unless you are doping. Yes, when peaking a runner may run low mileage. But in the off season they will have to build up there general base line fitness by running a lot.

Here's the question; is it possible to run a 2:19 marathon off of 55 miles/week when 55 miles is covered in 4 days of running and the other 3 days of the week are spent cross training on an elliptical, bike, nordic skiing, etc.? I'm looking to your thoughts as to what I'd be missing by cross training 3 days out of the week compared to running for my recovery. I have a history of overuse injuries which is why I'm leaning in the direction of cross training for my recovery.

The 4 days of running would be mostly high quality with a rough training schedule looking something like this:

Monday: 60 minutes elliptical

Tuesday: Medium long run at a moderate effort (13-15 miles) + Weights

Wednesday: 90 minutes cycling

Thursday: Threshold or VO2max session

Friday: Easy 45 min run + 30 minutes XT (elliptical, nordic ski, etc) + Weights

Saturday: 70 minutes XT

Sunday: Long run w/ marathon pace work (16-22 miles)

I'm at least 1.5-2 years off from having any chance of hitting a 2:19. I have a HM PB of 1:09:58. I would normally hover around 75 miles/week in past marathon and half marathon build ups but have run a few weeks with 85 miles. Any thoughts would be appreciated![/quote]

How did you come to 55 MPW? If you were hovering around 75 and that was too much why not try cutting back to 70 or 65? I would try replacing your 70 minute XT on Saturday with a 10 mile run and see how it goes. Your schedule looks pretty good, I would be careful not to do too much VO2 Max stuff. Work on getting your 10k and half marathon times down to a level comparable to 2:19. Google Tinman's training too.

I'd definitely be interested in seeing an example of 5 days of training, thanks.

Yes, but why are you cycling, Nordic skiing, and doing elliptical??

Knock those off and add more running.

Here’s an example of a 7 day cycle with 5 running days. This was three weeks out from my fall marathon. For weeks when long runs aren’t as hard of an effort, I may rearrange (e.g., shift day 4 up to day 3). In general, most weeks will vary based on work and family/children obligations, but my rules of thumb are to (1) run the day before the long run, (2) cross train the day after the long run, and (3) no running doubles. I usually target and successfully get 6 running days a week with 5 days being my fall back. 4 running days is the lowest I’ve gone during a training cycle (and it's usually just for 1 week before being able to get back on track to 6 days). If I only get in 4 running days, I’ll ramp up some ERG sessions (e.g., the 16.1K/10 miles may become 24K).

Day 1: 22 running miles (5up, 4@MP–1@easy-3@MP-1@E-3@Threshold-1@E-1@10K, 3 c/d)

Day 2: ERG day (10 miles) – easy

Day 3: 12 running miles @ easy pace; Double on ERG up tempo (5 miles)

Day 4: 16 running miles total with w/u & c/d (4x1600m @ 10k pace w/ 75sec R, then 4800m @ MP down to T)

Day 5: ERG day (10 miles) – easy

Day 6: 10 running miles with w/u & c/d (8x400m, 4x200m -- fast but feel good); Double on ERG up tempo (5 miles)

Day 7: 10 running miles @ easy pace

Running Miles: 70; Miles with Cross Training: 100