Third Kenyan runner in 10 days fails doping test

Everyone's looking for an edge wrote:

(Hmmm...I think aduck was onto something here with the speed peptide ?).

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/26/sports/doping-thomas-mann-peptides.html?rref=collection%2Ftimestopic%2FErythropoietin&action=click&contentCollection=timestopics&region=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=28&pgtype=collection

Interesting, he claims no sprinters or footballers have ever tested positive for this stuff. Yet over the last 10 years all the male WRs from 100m-800m have been broken, faster than times in the steriod era and the hgh-epo era. Indeed aduck may well have been on to something.

El Keniano wrote:

rwagrth wrote:

True.

I am white and I can tell Kwemoi from Manangoi, from Kimetto, from both Wilson Kipketers, Bernard Barmasai, Paul Tergat, Wilson Kipsang, Kamworor, the Mutais, Conseslus Kipruto from Brimin Kipruto, Danny Wanjiru from Sammy Wanjiru, etc., etc., etc., and yet I train with people who follow athletics and to them it's always just another black. "Must have been a Kenyan or an Ethiopian. Another black dude."

I can't understand this.

And Subway come here talking like a know it all and then says something like that.

That's stupid and coevettian.

Oh, he’s already a confirmed disciple, on top of being one of dozens of Kenya armchair experts here.

Hi ? meanwhile EPO remains €65 at pharmacies in Iten/Eldoret.

Subway Surfers wrote:

El Keniano wrote:

Oh, he’s already a confirmed disciple, on top of being one of dozens of Kenya armchair experts here.

Hi ? meanwhile EPO remains €65 at pharmacies in Iten/Eldoret.

That's why EPO is a cheap alternative to blood doping. ?

What are you talking about? Spain was a MAJOR power in the world scene in the 90s & early 00s. Considering the fact that so much of their talent gravitated to the more popular sports of soccer & cycling, it's nothing short of remarkable of what they achieved in athletics. Have you looked at some of their medal counts in major competitions? For example:

Men's marathon:

- WC Gold x 3 (Antón/97 & 99, Fiz 95)WC Silver (Fiz/97), EC x 2 (Antón/Fiz)

Men's 1500 :

- Olympic Gold (Cacho/92) Oly Silver (Cacho/96) WC Silver x 2 (Cacho/93 & 97) WC Bronze x 2 (Estévez/97 & 99) EC (Estévez).

Mens 5000:

EAAC (Garcia)

Women's 1500:

EC x 2 (Fernández)

Women's 5000:

WC Silver x 2 (Domínguez/01 & 03)

Women's SC:

WC Gold (Domínguez/09)

So...rekrunner; where's the American's medal count in the mid-d/distance events during that time period? How about the French? Or the Italians? Or the Brits? And think of the great Spanairds who won the TdF and other GTs, such as Delgado, Indurain, Herras, Contador & Valverde. Imagine these talented endurance athletes pursuing athletics instead of cycling. Espana did it well with much less talent than many other countries such as the East & North Africans.

Hi Renato,

On another thread a while back, you said that you'd be publishing details of Sondre Moen's drug testing in the year up until his breakthrough time at Fukuoka (you posted some informative details here on the LR forum about the tests that he'd had during this period), to promote full transparency about this. Do you still have plans to do this, as I haven't seen anything in the public sphere about this?

On another point, could any of the other posters on here enlighten me about the current status for blood testing in Kenya/Ethiopia right now? I was under the impression that there was still no blood testing taking place in these countries as there were no suitable testing facilities in Africa that they could get the samples to in the required timescale/condition for them to be used. This seemed to fit with the fact that Sondre Moen was urine tested several times during the time he spent in Kenya, but not blood tested.

But on the recent video put out by Mo Farah from Ethiopia, he's blood and urine tested by the official who is testing him. Is this correct? And which authority would be doing that testing? UKAD? Abbott Marathon Majors? IAAF? The guy who did the testing looked/sounded like he was more Kenyan than Ethiopian. And are the other Kenyan athletes that have been popped for EPO (which I guess would be from a urine test) being blood tested back home, as opposed to when they compete in Europe?

Finally, no-one seems to be mentioning Violah Jepchumba here, who's recently tested positive as well. Bahrain in theory, but basically Kenyan. 3rd fastest half marathoner in history (at the time).

Renato Canova wrote:.

I can confirm the athletes I coach don't use any supplement and any vitamin. Only the marathon runners use specific maltodextrine when go for fast long run in order to have more energetic support.

Why would you lie about something like this?

Lying wrote:

Renato Canova wrote:.

I can confirm the athletes I coach don't use any supplement and any vitamin. Only the marathon runners use specific maltodextrine when go for fast long run in order to have more energetic support.

Why would you lie about something like this?

Why would you lie?

Subway Surfers wrote:

El Keniano wrote:

Oh, he’s already a confirmed disciple, on top of being one of dozens of Kenya armchair experts here.

Hi ? meanwhile EPO remains €65 at pharmacies in Iten/Eldoret.

Trying to distract us from your ignorance?

Not working.

back atcha wrote:

Lying wrote:

Why would you lie about something like this?

Why would you lie?

You really want to go down with this ship?

Are people with your mentality who push athletes to dope. You speak about doping, but your culture is to use supplements every time, every where and FOR NOTHING.

This is the 3rd business of the World, and the producers need to wash the brain of all people like you, making you believe that supplements are a miracle and without you can't live.

Subway Surfers wrote:

Everyone's looking for an edge wrote:

(Hmmm...I think aduck was onto something here with the speed peptide ?).

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/26/sports/doping-thomas-mann-peptides.html?rref=collection%2Ftimestopic%2FErythropoietin&action=click&contentCollection=timestopics&region=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=28&pgtype=collection

Interesting, he claims no sprinters or footballers have ever tested positive for this stuff. Yet over the last 10 years all the male WRs from 100m-800m have been broken, faster than times in the steriod era and the hgh-epo era. Indeed aduck may well have been on to something.

not "have been"

its not like IGF-Lr3 is not being used anymore....

my guess is its the same cocktail they have been using since the late 90s (winstrol, HGH, THG, EPO), but now you add in IGF-lr3 with all the new add-ins to help maximize the benefits....like macro dosing L-carnitine, using T3 and T4 thyroid meds, macro does vit D, and diuretics....although the only way to do this is to have a doctor (rosa) or a chemist that knows enough to make sure all the goods are administrated correctly.

canova seems to study and evaluate blood values A LOT, it has nothing to do with keeping the glow down or anything im sure. rosa is a doc and he is in charge of coaching...conte who so many claim is a lying moron...was smart enough to make MILLIONS and orchestrate a doping regiment for hundreds of professional athletes. seems to me he must have know his physiology and chemistry pretty f*cking good. and this guy in the article, must be pretty smart as well, im sure MUCH smarter in the likes what PEDs can do for you than rek or ex runner think they know.

naah its all a placebo, PEDs dont work, too bad i cant afford that $32 kenyan tea

I'm talking about best performances. You can tell because I used the phrase "best performances". Using the metric of time, and viewed with an all time perspective, Spain's performances were unremarkable. Spain only achieved the performance levels that the Brits and the Portuguese had achieved a decade earlier, before the development of synthetic EPO. I showed this conclusively in another thread with complete historical all time performance data. But you do bring up an interesting point: "where's the American's medal count in the mid-d/distance events during that time period? How about the French? Or the Italians? Or the Brits?" Why didn't athletes from these and other non-African countries believe in the powerful mythical endurance effects of EPO? EPO was available everywhere. Undetectable everywhere. Works on everyone. Were they all naive or something?

Spanish Armada wrote:

What are you talking about?

Give it up, Renato

Yep...no one is mentioning it because things are getting so egregious now since appears testing was stepped up a notch and big names are getting hammered. According to the AIU, Jepchumba tested positive for rocket fuel on 071018 (Presence of a Prohibited Substance (EPO) (Article 2.1).

And like you alluded to, Jepchumba ran the 3rd fastest HM ever...so it's not just the "lower tier" elites like Kalalei & Morrocan Mousaab Hadout who both just tested positive for EPO. And there's former WR holder & Olympic Gold medalist Jebet who also got nailed. So, there's some serious speed there with Jepchumba & Jebet.

It's getting so ridiculous now I don't see how the likes of Canova & rekrunner can continually rationalize and minimize these egregious doping cases. These aren't opinions or speculation as to who's doping - these are positive test cases or FACTS!, as the term Canova like to use. The fun & games are over.

I have no idea why you would lie about supplements. They are not illegal or unethical. Pretty much the only thing you ever brought to the argument that doping wouldn't work is your personal experience. You swore (and continue to swear on here) that you have coached athletes who have been the best in the world and have set world records. That you lived with them and knew that they had never taken any performance enhancing drugs and that is why you knew that PEDS didn't work. You don't have any trials with PEDS (or maybe you do), you don't have any science stating they don't work, you only have your word. If you lie about something as insignificant as supplements, why would anybody believe that you would not lie about drugs and what you saw with your own eyes and what those athletes who set world records actually did to set those world records? I don't take any supplements (so I don't know what you are talking about "my culture"), but I can prove that at least one of your athletes does, at your direction.

Renato Canova wrote:

Are people with your mentality who push athletes to dope. You speak about doping, but your culture is to use supplements every time, every where and FOR NOTHING.

This is the 3rd business of the World, and the producers need to wash the brain of all people like you, making you believe that supplements are a miracle and without you can't live.

Don't worry, I'm sure rekrunner will still believe in you and defend you

rekrunner wrote:

I'm talking about best performances. You can tell because I used the phrase "best performances".

Using the metric of time, and viewed with an all time perspective, Spain's performances were unremarkable.

Spain only achieved the performance levels that the Brits and the Portuguese had achieved a decade earlier, before the development of synthetic EPO.

I showed this conclusively in another thread with complete historical all time performance data.

But you do bring up an interesting point: "where's the American's medal count in the mid-d/distance events during that time period? How about the French? Or the Italians? Or the Brits?"

Why didn't athletes from these and other non-African countries believe in the powerful mythical endurance effects of EPO? EPO was available everywhere. Undetectable everywhere. Works on everyone. Were they all naive or something?

This is where you're wrong as best performances isn't all about raw time. Olympic & WC medals, especially of the gold variety, are equally as important as a PB time, otherwise what is the point in having Olympics & WC games? Do you think 20 yrs from now people are going care that Centro never ran anything faster than 3:30 in his career? (and didn't make pre-90s cut-off. Lol). No...they're going to remember him winning Olympic gold and defeating the likes of Makhloufi, Kiprop, Willis & Iguider on the biggest stage in the World. Another example is Seb Coe. Everyone I talk to never brings up his 3:29.77 PB - it's all about his 2 Olympic gold medals that they remember & talk about. And most of these athletes will tell you that the price of Olympic/WC gold outweighs any PB time.

You don't take my point.

1- It's of sure a FACT that several Kenyan athletes, some of them of top level, used doping. And it's of sure a fact that they are among the best in the world.

2- But it's also a FACT that a bigger number of athletes are BETTER than these doped Kenyans, training and competing totally clean.

The problem is not that I deny there are top runners doped : I'm the first very tough with them, because their action can spoil the image of all the other top athletes clean.

The problem is that you deny the possibility to better WR or to win OG or WCh with CLEAN training only, not using any supplement too.

The problem is that you are stating that you never give your runners any supplements or vitamins and this is false. Since you are lying about this, everything else you say is suspect.

Renato Canova wrote:

The problem is not that I deny there are top runners doped : I'm the first very tough with them, because their action can spoil the image of all the other top athletes clean.

The problem is that you deny the possibility to better WR or to win OG or WCh with CLEAN training only, not using any supplement too.