Developing story out of North Central- every single member of the men’s team has failed their drug tests, their pee showing MASSIVE amounts of marijuana. Coincidentally, a local man, Bared Jorowski was arrested for dealing copious amounts of marijuana in Minneapolis. The reign of North Central is over.
O’GARA FTW AT NATS. HIS EXPERIENCE AS A FIFTH YEAR SENIOR WILL CARRY HIM TO VICTORY OVER ALL THESE YOUNG GUNS. WATCH OUT FOR WASHU UPSETTING NORTH CENTRAL.
wait what
why does the south region even get 2 auto bids to nats? you're telling me i have to watch emory come in dead last while other worthy teams have to watch from their couches?? c'mon
The New England region is objectively the strongest region in the country, they deserve to have more than 4 or 5 teams go to nats
Tom Brady wrote:
The New England region is objectively the strongest region in the country, they deserve to have more than 4 or 5 teams go to nats
Midwest region is strongest, new england is deepest. but they always underperform at nattys
Theres gonna be 4 New England teams in the top 12 this year, could be 8 in the top 32 if they gave the region that many bids, but honestly won't be surprised if they get snubbed again and they just get 4 lmao
When adjusting for liberal bias, the Northeast is statistically the best region.
It's been proven that colleges in the northeast are consistently more academically challenging that any college in the midwest. Just compare the average ACT score between Hopkins/MIT and Eau Claire/Lacrosse. The academic load is a huge stress on DIII athletes and significantly reduces the amount of training stress someone can handle. On top of that, the northeast has far fewer "academic" scholarships that can used to lure top athletes to the college (a la Eau Claire). Furthermore, brutal winters in the northeast limit the number of months teams can train to 7-8, compared to the year-round optimal training conditions in the midwest.
The only reason the midwest consistently gets more bids EVERY year is due to political correctness. It's an athletic version of affirmative action - in an effort to develop the midwest into a competitive region, the committee pushed through under-qualified teams to nationals so they can build stronger teams in the future. In a truly free-market bid system, the midwest would get a MAXIMUM of 1 wildcard every year, whereas the Northeast would get a MINIMUM of 3 (this is statistically proven- just look at the numbers).
M.A.G.A
Northeast has worse training conditions than Wisconsin?! Nah dawg. All year ideal conditions in the midwest does not exist. Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, included. Maybe in Missouri teams get a break. But New England summers are weeeeeek so take that into account. Midwest works hard and thats why theres so many teams from there.
MidBest wrote:
When adjusting for liberal bias, the Northeast is statistically the best region.
It's been proven that colleges in the northeast are consistently more academically challenging that any college in the midwest. Just compare the average ACT score between Hopkins/MIT and Eau Claire/Lacrosse. The academic load is a huge stress on DIII athletes and significantly reduces the amount of training stress someone can handle. On top of that, the northeast has far fewer "academic" scholarships that can used to lure top athletes to the college (a la Eau Claire). Furthermore, brutal winters in the northeast limit the number of months teams can train to 7-8, compared to the year-round optimal training conditions in the midwest.
M.A.G.A
I think everyone in the Wisconsin System would like to know where all these "academic" scholarships you mention are at? It's a flat-rate system if you enroll in those schools. So they're paying the price listed....not like private schools that advertise a $55k price tag but everyone ends up paying $15-20k
First of all, idk what the Northeast region is. I think you mean New England? Either way, you cant be serious. You're saying the ONLY reason why the Midwest gets more bids is to develop the Midwest into a competitive region? Let's look at how the Midwest stacks up against New England at nattys.
2017:
Midwest finished: 1st, 4th, 5th, 9th, and 10th.
New England finished: 7th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th.
Midwest had better performance
2016:
Midwest finished: 1st, 3rd, 4th, and 6th.
New England finished: 7th, 8th, 12th, and 26th.
Midwest had better performance
2015:
Midwest finished: 1st, 5th, 9th, 13th, 16th, 20th, 27th, 31st.
New England finished: 2nd, 10th, 17th, 19th, 24th.
Midwest had better performance
2014:
Midwest finished: 1st, 3rd, 4th, 7th, 23rd.
New England finished: 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 13th, 22nd, 26th.
Midwest put 3 teams ahead of New England's first, but NE had two more teams in the top 31.
2013:
Midwest finished: 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 9th, 12th, 28th.
New England finished: 5th, 7th, 11th, 17th, 22nd, 24th.
Midwest had better performance
2012:
Midwest finished: 1st, 4th, 5th, 9th, 10th
New England finished: 7th, 8th, 12th, 16th, 20th.
Midwest had better performance
With that being said, my point is don't disrespect the Midwest region like you have. Midwest is crazy strong and they deserve the recognition of their success. New England is a force to be reckoned with, but not quite like the MW.
wtf bro wrote:
2017:
Midwest finished: 1st, 4th, 5th, 9th, and 10th.
New England finished: 7th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th.
Midwest had better performance
Where do you think Amherst is located? They were 4th in 2017. LaCrosse was 2nd.
Your point stands, though. Midwest is clearly stronger up top.
As an individual that ran at a "Northeast" (actually an Atlantic region school but we competed heavily with New England, eastern NY) and then lived and trained with a Midwest (Wisconsin based) school for 6 months from August to January I feel well informed about this discussion.
What I found as a whole can be broken up into three main categories: Academic Rigor, Training Conditions, and Recruits.
Academically, the northeast athletes are at a disadvantage training wise, but an advantage future life wise. As a whole the schools are academically much harder in the northeast, in addition to academics being a bigger part of student life. The northeast is the home of D3 athletics. These schools were built around the Roger Banister model, where academics and athletics go hand in hand, but neither trumps the others importance. All schools have their own academic cycle of midterms, finals, and large assignments. When I was living in the Midwest the athletes were able to essentially blow off their academics until it suited them. That was not the case in the Northeast. Often long bus rides and overnights were filled with homework, take home test, and projects.
Training conditions as a whole were not that much different. The summer in Wisconsin was a little less humid than what the Northeast has to deal with. The dry bulb temperatures tracked similarly. The winter was slightly different. Wisconsin was a much more consistent cold with less snow. The Northeast never stops having moisture falling from the sky all winter, but the temperature swings are much more extreme between cold and warm. Year round training in both places is very difficult, but I think it strengthens the athletes as a whole.
Recruits are drastically different between the Northeast and the Midwest. The Northeast having more "big name" schools pulls individuals from all over the country. This leads to a less consistent recruiting class. Freshman are coming from farther away, and are often drawn to a school because of multiple things besides just running. When I was in the Midwest, every athlete was from the town over. People tended to go to college with in an hour or two of their home town. Additionally with lower tuition costs and the "I just need to get a degree" mentality, the recruiting classes in the Midwest are bigger and more consistent. The coaches don't need to hope a freshman will pan out like they do in the northeast, instead they have 6 freshman who are all equally talented and if a couple break under the new training load, someone will step into their place. My final note on recruits, is there are less sub par D1 and D2 programs in the Midwest. In the northeast a lot of solid HS athletes have options to run at a low caliber D1 or D2 programs, and that ends up pulling a lot of "local" talent away from the competitive D3 schools. That does not seem to be the case in the Midwest.
In conclusion, I enjoyed my time with both the Northeast team and the Midwest team. Runners are runners no matter where they are from. Both regions have good schools and bad schools, both athletically and academically. In my opinion, the Midwest athletes have an easier athlete life balance. The training conditions are slightly different, and if a school has good facilities than that slight difference disappears almost entirely. The Midwest can year over year count on freshman to back fill their squad which can help the consistency of a program.
oh yeah i messed up on 2017 it should be
Midwest: 1st, 2nd, 5th, 7th, 22nd.
New England: 4th, 13th, 16th, 17th.
Illium wrote:
As an individual that ran at a "Northeast" (actually an Atlantic region school but we competed heavily with New England, eastern NY) and then lived and trained with a Midwest (Wisconsin based) school for 6 months from August to January I feel well informed about this discussion.
What I found as a whole can be broken up into three main categories: Academic Rigor, Training Conditions, and Recruits.
Academically, the northeast athletes are at a disadvantage training wise, but an advantage future life wise. As a whole the schools are academically much harder in the northeast, in addition to academics being a bigger part of student life. The northeast is the home of D3 athletics. These schools were built around the Roger Banister model, where academics and athletics go hand in hand, but neither trumps the others importance. All schools have their own academic cycle of midterms, finals, and large assignments. When I was living in the Midwest the athletes were able to essentially blow off their academics until it suited them. That was not the case in the Northeast. Often long bus rides and overnights were filled with homework, take home test, and projects.
Training conditions as a whole were not that much different. The summer in Wisconsin was a little less humid than what the Northeast has to deal with. The dry bulb temperatures tracked similarly. The winter was slightly different. Wisconsin was a much more consistent cold with less snow. The Northeast never stops having moisture falling from the sky all winter, but the temperature swings are much more extreme between cold and warm. Year round training in both places is very difficult, but I think it strengthens the athletes as a whole.
Recruits are drastically different between the Northeast and the Midwest. The Northeast having more "big name" schools pulls individuals from all over the country. This leads to a less consistent recruiting class. Freshman are coming from farther away, and are often drawn to a school because of multiple things besides just running. When I was in the Midwest, every athlete was from the town over. People tended to go to college with in an hour or two of their home town. Additionally with lower tuition costs and the "I just need to get a degree" mentality, the recruiting classes in the Midwest are bigger and more consistent. The coaches don't need to hope a freshman will pan out like they do in the northeast, instead they have 6 freshman who are all equally talented and if a couple break under the new training load, someone will step into their place. My final note on recruits, is there are less sub par D1 and D2 programs in the Midwest. In the northeast a lot of solid HS athletes have options to run at a low caliber D1 or D2 programs, and that ends up pulling a lot of "local" talent away from the competitive D3 schools. That does not seem to be the case in the Midwest.
In conclusion, I enjoyed my time with both the Northeast team and the Midwest team. Runners are runners no matter where they are from. Both regions have good schools and bad schools, both athletically and academically. In my opinion, the Midwest athletes have an easier athlete life balance. The training conditions are slightly different, and if a school has good facilities than that slight difference disappears almost entirely. The Midwest can year over year count on freshman to back fill their squad which can help the consistency of a program.
We can't base anything off of this because you won't tell us exactly which schools you are talking about. This is probably true if the two schools you are comparing are Williams and UW-Platteville. It is less likely to be true if the two schools are SUNY Geneseo and the University of Chicago.
Illium wrote:
As an individual that ran at a "Northeast" (actually an Atlantic region school but we competed heavily with New England, eastern NY) and then lived and trained with a Midwest (Wisconsin based) school for 6 months from August to January I feel well informed about this discussion.
What I found as a whole can be broken up into three main categories: Academic Rigor, Training Conditions, and Recruits.
Academically, the northeast athletes are at a disadvantage training wise, but an advantage future life wise. As a whole the schools are academically much harder in the northeast, in addition to academics being a bigger part of student life. The northeast is the home of D3 athletics. These schools were built around the Roger Banister model, where academics and athletics go hand in hand, but neither trumps the others importance. All schools have their own academic cycle of midterms, finals, and large assignments. When I was living in the Midwest the athletes were able to essentially blow off their academics until it suited them. That was not the case in the Northeast. Often long bus rides and overnights were filled with homework, take home test, and projects.
Training conditions as a whole were not that much different. The summer in Wisconsin was a little less humid than what the Northeast has to deal with. The dry bulb temperatures tracked similarly. The winter was slightly different. Wisconsin was a much more consistent cold with less snow. The Northeast never stops having moisture falling from the sky all winter, but the temperature swings are much more extreme between cold and warm. Year round training in both places is very difficult, but I think it strengthens the athletes as a whole.
Recruits are drastically different between the Northeast and the Midwest. The Northeast having more "big name" schools pulls individuals from all over the country. This leads to a less consistent recruiting class. Freshman are coming from farther away, and are often drawn to a school because of multiple things besides just running. When I was in the Midwest, every athlete was from the town over. People tended to go to college with in an hour or two of their home town. Additionally with lower tuition costs and the "I just need to get a degree" mentality, the recruiting classes in the Midwest are bigger and more consistent. The coaches don't need to hope a freshman will pan out like they do in the northeast, instead they have 6 freshman who are all equally talented and if a couple break under the new training load, someone will step into their place. My final note on recruits, is there are less sub par D1 and D2 programs in the Midwest. In the northeast a lot of solid HS athletes have options to run at a low caliber D1 or D2 programs, and that ends up pulling a lot of "local" talent away from the competitive D3 schools. That does not seem to be the case in the Midwest.
In conclusion, I enjoyed my time with both the Northeast team and the Midwest team. Runners are runners no matter where they are from. Both regions have good schools and bad schools, both athletically and academically. In my opinion, the Midwest athletes have an easier athlete life balance. The training conditions are slightly different, and if a school has good facilities than that slight difference disappears almost entirely. The Midwest can year over year count on freshman to back fill their squad which can help the consistency of a program.
Hey man, a couple things here.
1. I'd say its easier to recruit when you're recruiting from a big name school. It takes less convincing of athletes' decision.
2. Also, the northeast has a much faster pool of athletes. look at results on athletic.net.
3. The midwest is more humid on average than the northeast. The average humidity for the following states: (forbes)
Iowa: 72%
Illinois: 70%
Indiana: 72%
Michigan: 72%
Minnesota: 70%
Wisconsin: 71%
Connecticut: 69%
Maryland: 68%
New Jersey: 68.5%
New York: 70%
Pennsylvania: 69%
Virginia: 68%
Although the difference is slight, a few percentage points in terms of humidity is a lot.
4. Show some respect for the midwest teams' academics. Yes, Northeast area schools are better but Wash U, Grinnell, Carleton etc are from that area. The endowment for a lot of the colleges aren't nearly as high, making it more difficult to finance the programs and facilities. I'd say the midwest teams are at a disadvantage for that.
Are you people seriously arguing about humidity rn in relation to a regions strength, something tells me this factor is probably negligible
Go for a run in St. Louis in July and get back to me on that one
Tom Brady wrote:
The New England region is objectively the strongest region in the country, they deserve to have more than 4 or 5 teams go to nats
I think it is funny that every year the New England schools cry that they should have more teams at nationals and every year they continue to not run out of the region to get the wins the committee is looking for. They spend money to go overnight to lehigh which does nothing for them but don’t go to Rowan (or Oshkosh, Oberlin, wherever prenats is- Rowan is drivable and not much further than Lehigh). New England got lucky St Thomas bailed them out going to Conn College’s meet or they would have no quality wins again and be looking at 4 teams. Now they have a chance to get 5-6 depending on how regionals plays out.
For such “great academic schools” they seem to have trouble following the criteria the selection committee has given them.
Follow the criteria wrote:
Tom Brady wrote:
The New England region is objectively the strongest region in the country, they deserve to have more than 4 or 5 teams go to nats
I think it is funny that every year the New England schools cry that they should have more teams at nationals and every year they continue to not run out of the region to get the wins the committee is looking for. They spend money to go overnight to lehigh which does nothing for them but don’t go to Rowan (or Oshkosh, Oberlin, wherever prenats is- Rowan is drivable and not much further than Lehigh). New England got lucky St Thomas bailed them out going to Conn College’s meet or they would have no quality wins again and be looking at 4 teams. Now they have a chance to get 5-6 depending on how regionals plays out.
For such “great academic schools” they seem to have trouble following the criteria the selection committee has given them.
New England sucks. Bunch of soft, time-trial cucks who peak running against other soft runners and then get waxed by WIAC schools at Nats. Happens every year.
With that said, let's get some UAA power rankings! And let's hear your best Padgett bread/CMU showers/who is Rochester/lol Brandeis jokes!
I’m a D2 female runner. Our coach explicitly told us not to visit LetsRun forums.
Great interview with Steve Cram - says Jakob has no chance of WRs this year
RENATO can you talk about the preparation of Emile Cairess 2:06
adizero Road to Records with Yomif Kejelcha, Agnes Ngetich, Hobbs Kessler & many more is Saturday
2024 College Track & Field Open Coaching Positions Discussion
Hats off to my dad. He just ran a 1:42 Half Marathon and turns 75 in 2 months!