Critique my 12 week marathon training plan

Certainly not a bad plan, any chance you could race a half 4-6 weeks out to gauge fitness? Also I'm not a huge fan doing so many runs that are continuous goal pace runs.

As a personal preference I'd rather do some of those as a fast finish long run. So if you're doing 18, you do 8M at a conversational pace then crank down the last 10M to goal pace or a few click faster.

Mentally it's easier for me, and that's how I want to run on race day- negative split.

Good luck I don't envy anyone training for Chicago during the heat of the summer.

EZ10Miler wrote:

Certainly not a bad plan, any chance you could race a half 4-6 weeks out to gauge fitness? Also I'm not a huge fan doing so many runs that are continuous goal pace runs.

As a personal preference I'd rather do some of those as a fast finish long run. So if you're doing 18, you do 8M at a conversational pace then crank down the last 10M to goal pace or a few click faster.

Mentally it's easier for me, and that's how I want to run on race day- negative split.

Good luck I don't envy anyone training for Chicago during the heat of the summer.

Would likely eliminate races as the training blocks revolve around the long continuous marathon pace runs. I have typically incorporated fast finish long runs as you suggest, but am wondering if it might make more sense to run longer at goal pace for preparation.

Interesting set up, thanks for posting it. I'm about the same age and have similar goals and fitness, so it's cool to be able to take a look at someone else's approach. How does this compare with what you've done before?

I like the concept of the 3-week cycle. I monkeyed around with the idea of a two-week set up when I was planning out my own training.

In the big picture, it looks like a good mix of different kinds of work, and I imagine it could work well for you. However, my own inclination would be to turn the volume knob slightly up and the pace knob slightly down.

For example, let's suppose we are both aiming to run at about 6:40/mile (ballpark).

It sounds like you are planning to do:

faster intervals at about 6:00/m

tempo runs and tempo intervals at (I'm guessing) about 6:20/m

fast continuous runs at about 6:40/m

easy runs at 7:45-8:15

average weekly volume about 60

I am planning to do something more like:

tempo runs / tempo intervals at about 6:25/mile

long intervals at about 6:40/mile

fast continuous runs at about 6:55/mile

easy runs... easy (frequently on trails)

average weekly volume about 70 (with somewhat higher volume in workouts as well)

(I'm also doing some very short speed stuff - strides, hill sprints, light fartlek-style stuff - which you may well be doing, but didn't happen to note.)

So, from my perspective, the paces that you propose look just a touch too fast (though I imagine that from your perspective, mine look a little slow). My thinking on this is informed by Canova's emphasis on paces between 95-105% of goal race pace (what he considers specific training), and specifically his approach of using long MP intervals and long fast runs at just a bit slower than marathon pace (building up from 90-95% or thereabouts). In my experience, the 95% approach makes it possible to do significantly more specific volume with significantly less strain.

A couple other thoughts:

I would think about running easy (really easy) on your off days instead of taking them off completely. Partly a matter of personal preference/what works for you, but I find that I recover better off a really easy run than I do off no running at all.

In general, I'm strongly in favor of just running easy days easy with no prescribed pace.

GFMH,

Thanks for responding. Given work and family commitments (50hour/week job, married with young kids, taking care of elderly parents) I find that 60-70mpw is my sweet spot and can manage a week or two close to 70. With planned recovery weeks avg comes close to 60mpw.

You raise a lot of good points and I don't think we're too far off. Assuming a goal MP of 6:40 my continuous tempo runs would realistically be in the 6:25-6:35 range with tempo intervals around 6:20-6:25. For long MP runs I would target 6:40-6:50 (or MP-MP +10sec/mile). I too would likely add some short hill sprints on Mondays and some other strides mixed in on tempo intervals or medium long runs from time to time when feeling good.

You're probably right on trying to run on my off days. With kids scheduling Sunday will probably need to stay off but maybe that will be my only day. Am typically active that day doing hiking, walking, yard work etc so it's not a lazy day.

I think where we differ is on the speed workouts and long, continuous MP runs. Part of the reason behind my proposed schedule is that I feel I have plateaued on my typical cycles focusing on tempo runs and fast finish long runs. I don't typically run 5k intervals during marathon training and am not completely sold on their merit but want to try something different. I have good overall endurance and can crank out 20-24 mile training runs fairly easily but feel like I should be emphasizing strength and practicing pace over very long MP runs, especially on a flat course like Chicago. These training blocks really revolve around the long MP runs, with plenty of recovery before and after and a diverse mix of workouts throughout the middle weeks.

Here is a link to an article where I got the idea for the long MP runs if you're interested.

https://www.runnersworld.com/race-training/run-your-best-marathon-really

For my 2:58 PR I ran a 14mile MGP and 16 mile MGP runs in the last four weeks so concept is not completely new to me. Although I admit 18 MGP is long, which is why I will taper for 3 weeks afterwards.

I think this is a good, solid schedule, but I would make a few changes. I wouldn't keep the 5k paced intervals for the third or fourth time through the cycle, but rather would replace them with more threshold work.

I also agree that you are getting more time than physiologically necessary at goal marathon pace - that pace doesn't do much for you in terms of physiology, but I recognize that some folks get a huge mental boost from time at marathon pace; so keep it if that is why you are doing it, but I would drop much of it personally. I'd keep the week three marathon paced stuff and do the marathon pace finish to your long runs as suggested by the other poster as part of your long runs. You could insert more work at tempo pace in place of the marathon pace stuff in week 2.

One other thought: your low mileage week (week 1) is also your least intense week with only the vo2max work /(if you keep it) being the only real workout. You may want to consider inverting things so that your least intense week is your highest volume week. That evens out the overall load on your body over the training cycle rather than to sometimes coupling big volume and intensity. I would have week 3 be my low volume week in your plan.

So some food for thought, but if you ask 100 people to opine, you would likely get 100 opinions. I think you will feel well prepared with your plan as currently drafted.

Smoove,

Thanks for weighing in. A few comments on your observations.

1) I agree it's probably a good idea to drop the 5k intervals the last couple of cycles and replace with threshold running. I might add a few 200m reps to those threshold runs to work on turnover once in a while.

2) Fair point about maybe too much work at M pace. I've relied on the standard fast finish long runs in the past (8 easy, 8 M) but have also gone up to 16 continuous M for my fastest marathons. I tend to find that longer tempo and M pace runs work better for me than T or M intervals and I like doing the longer stuff. I do think they build strength and confidence in me and am looking to run some harder long runs to hopefully break out of my plateau.

3) The recovery week is intended to follow the long M pace runs with lower mileage and less intensity to recover from the long M run. I'll consider maybe restructuring so week 3 (long M run week) is my lowest mileage week but worry I may delay recovery from the long M run if I try to do too much the week afterwards.

Looks pretty good, I would keep up the longer aerobic efforts, and maybe drop the quicker stuff. With stress you need to pick your battles, do you really need to be breaking yourself down to get spesific fitness for a 5k? Maybe take that time and just run more mileage.

I do like the longer runs at M pace - although 18 is longer than I could manage. I'd cut the 4-5 mile bouts, not the longer bouts.

Smoove wrote:

I do like the longer runs at M pace - although 18 is longer than I could manage. I'd cut the 4-5 mile bouts, not the longer bouts.

Thanks for clarifying Smoove