Have Foreign Interactions Ever Benefitted Kenyan Runners?

El Keniano, several times I agree with you, but this time you pissed out of the basin.

First thing, quit to speak about "Italian coaches and agents" : if you think something like this, you authorize everybody to think that "Kenyans" are doped.

The world is populated by INDIVIDUALS, having their ethic, their knowledge, their passion and their behavior. There are Italians who always helped Kenyans and African people, and there were Italians that abused of African people, in the past like in the current days.

If in Kenya many schools and institutes still have some Italian name (Don Bosco, for example) is because there were missionaries going there for teaching and helping, of course not for abusing people.

I went Kenya the first time in 1998, for 5 years moving from Kapsabet to Kaptagat to Eldoret for teaching how to train to athletes and other coaches, and for learning the interpretation of training (as IAAF Lecturer).

I was captured by the Kenyan life at the beginning of the millennium, I lived in rural houses without running water and power like in the first years of my life (I was born in 1944) immediately after the world war. I felt, inside my heart, the strong motivation, anf the satisfaction, to do something for helping poor people, starting from the education, and I used my money for organizing in 2004=2006 a training camp in Iten, renting all the houses of Ismail Kirui, without being a manager myself, without being connected with some professional management, only coaching the athletes who were free to chose their agent.

I have a lot of friends among Kenyan athletes and coaches, and it's unfair to put every foreigner in the same pot, because there are good managements (without them, athletics in Kenya never can really improve, because private managements invested money and knowledge for developing athletics, not the Federation), but also bad managers without any knowledge and little honesty.

Till now, too many times Kenyans showed to have a wrong idea about PRIDE and RESPECT, thinking the best way to face some problem is to hide it denying the existence.

In 2012, I had a personal talk with Isaiah Kiplagat informing him of a change of mentality at the base of athletics, involving athletes of local level only, with KENYAN doctors and pharmacists trying to take advantage from the ignorance of the athletes themselves, giving illegal substances (mainly steroids) for improving their performances.

The reaction of the Chairman was "Mzungu, this is not your problem", and officially made a statement DENYING the problem could exist, practically giving strength to the investigation of Seppelt, that was built at the table and, for 80% of all the informations, was a FAKE report.

I use to have meetings with the athletes I coach, and with the assistant coaches working with me, for EDUCATING them, not only about the situation of doping, but also about a different way to organizing their life. The same Patrick Sang is doing in Kaptagat, and the same Brother Colm is doing in Iten.

This is the road : EDUCATION. And, on the side of AK, to chose, among the agents, who has professional knowledge and can help the athletes, and who doesn't know anything, but only hopes to earn some money, frequently cheating the athletes.

And, about Kenya, I tell you what I explain every time I speak with local people : YOU BECOME A REAL UNITED COUNTRY WHEN, INSTEAD TO ASK AS FIRST QUESTION "WHERE ARE YOU FROM", FINALLY START TO ASK " WHAT ARE YOU ABLE TO DO", not depending on tribe, skin color or nationality.

Renato, what is your take on the Asbel Kiprop case, as I know you know Asbel really well, dating back 10 years ?

Grazie mille for your take on this sad for running debacle. Maybe you could explain what you think happened.

In Kenya, there are athletes who have a suspicious behavior, and nobody can be surprised if one day can become positive. The athletes on the ground speak, and when there is a lot of smog, sometimes there is the roast too.

But there are athletes who NEVER created some doubt about the fact to be clean, for example Rudisha or, in my group, Ronald Kwemoi. Asbel always was considered part of this group of CLEAN athletes, and everybody is really shocked for what happened.

I don't have some explanation, but too many things are out of any logic.

If an athlete knows to be at risk of doping, but is informed directly by the antidoping agency about his OOC test (practically a test under individual appointment), why he doesn't go in some other place, having a MISSED TEST that doesn't have any effect till when there are not 3 of them in the same season (did you remember the "I didn't hear the bell of my door ringing" of Mo Farah ?) ?

But something else is not clear. For example, the fact he gave some money to the official, in my opinion has nothing to do with the test, because sometimes people acting in some structure of Athletics (maybe AK, maybe the antidoping agency), who have occasions to frequently meet the best athletes, and know they can earn a lot of money (so, are considered RICH PERSONS) need some money for personal problems (for example, some of the family in the hospital), and when meet a top athletes ask a support AS FRIENDS. In Africa, when somebody asks some money to another person, it's wrong to connect this action with something not clear, because it's a normal behavior, when people need, to ask or mzungus or top athletes their support. This happens to me too, and people ask in polite way for some support, without offering anything for having this money. It's a normal situation that who has more money can help who is more poor and needs some support, without thinking at this fact as the way to PAY some illegal service.

One thing I'm sure is that the mentality of Asbel didn't include the possibility to look at doping for enhancing his performances. But this doesn't exclude the possibility he took EPO, maybe unconsciously, inside some medicine he took when was injured.

The real problems we have in Kenya with doping depend on two main factors :

a) The difficulty, for a Kenyan living the local life, to respect the "window" of his whereabout, because too many times they have to go around for some real problem involving parents, relatives, children or sometimes friends, and in their mentality those situation have the priority compared with the MUST to communicate every variations of the site where they can be reached by the officials of antidoping (nobody manages personally with a computer his whereabout, but everybody has to communicate to the management in Europe or US every variations, also when is something happening in the last minute)

b) The assumption of medicines, for legal reasons (for example, cough or allergy or some infection), produced in Asia without the parameters we have in Western Countries, containing substances not written on the package, or written in the original language that nobody is able to read and understand. For example, in India is common to put, in any medicine, a small quantity of steroids, and I'm sure that the most part of athletes of second level, banned for steroids, present in their body in very little quantity, took these substances without knowing (also, the level of education in the most part of cases is not enough for understanding complicated rules).

In the case of Asbel, I can exclude these kind of problems, and I don't have some explanation of the fact.

I can only describe my feeling, and it is that Asbel is not a "voluntary" cheater as person.

Renato It's a normal situation that who has more money can help who is more poor and needs some support, without thinking at this fact as the way to PAY some illegal service.

But this doesn't exclude the possibility he took EPO, maybe unconsciously, inside some medicine he took when was injured.

The real problems we have in Kenya with doping depend on two main factors :

nobody manages personally with a computer his whereabout, but everybody has to communicate to the management in Europe or US every variations, also when is something happening in the last minute)

For example, in India is common to put, in any medicine, a small quantity of steroids

1) the tester is unlikely to be poor. It would be unusual for him to request money unless they are close friends or a bribe especiallybshen no reason was given.

2) what medicine could lead to an accidental EPO positive? Would he not need to have had cancer. Steroids and stimulants could possibly be consumed accidentally but not EPO.

3) they all use smartphones; they can update whereabouts if they want.

4) interesting point about medicine from India. Is this your opinion or has it been mentioned elsewhere?

Mi scusi signor allenatore. I never once singled out Italians in my post but negative foreign influences in general.

Renato has confirmed what many of us think - namely that Asbel did not voluntarily dope, and as Renato said, Asbel absolutely does not need to dope, because doing so would have no positive outcome on his physical condition and fitness.

Renato has known Asbel since he was a gangly teenager, and his words are sincere, therefore it would be a travesty to convict Asbel and damage his career, after all the farcical procedures which have come to light, indicating that the case should be thrown out, dismissed.

He will be missing from Doha tonight, but should be allowed to resume his career asap.

^ I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic.

El Keniano wrote:

^ I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic.

Not being sarcastic here, but endorsing what Canova says, and taking into account that Asbel could easily have 'missed' the doping control indicates, in all probability, that Asbel is not technically guilty of willful doping. Do you agree, El K.?

Asbel's lawyer, presumably, will issue an explanation soon.

Give us all your pre-London Olympic marathon medals, Tanui's track medals etc. back and then think about your question, Keniano-san.

Ghost1 wrote:

El Keniano wrote:

^ I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic.

Not being sarcastic here, but endorsing what Canova says, and taking into account that Asbel could easily have 'missed' the doping control indicates, in all probability, that Asbel is not technically guilty of willful doping. Do you agree, El K.?

Asbel's lawyer, presumably, will issue an explanation soon.

Tu as raison. But in this climate with the torches and pitchforks ... he's done.

Shanga, you obviously don't know the normal life in Kenya. People can have some money, but it's very difficult they have cash enough for paying for a sudden problem, and in this case everybody asks to a lot of other people some support (maybe promising they can give back money in short time, something never happening...).

About the medicines available in Kenya, when I speak about the RISK to buy some medicine with illegal substances (normally made in Asia), I didn't want to connect what I say with the specific case of Asbel, but wanted to speak in general, because this is a fact frequently happening, and many times people don't know what they take.

In Africa, medicines never are enough for curing all people needing specific pharma, and pharmacists don't want to waste part of them, how for example happens in Italy, where in every house there are a lot of medicines only partially used. In Europe, if you need 6 tablets in a package of 20, you buy all 20 and have 14 of them useless for long time in some furniture in your house. In Kenya, or Ethiopia, or Uganda, or any other African Country, the pharmacists removes from the package 6 tablets only, and give you inside a piece of a newspaper, so you don't have any clue about the real substances you take.

About the medicines from India, and not only, the fact they contain in small dosage many type of steroids, and sometimes EPO too, is well known and certified in Western labs, but till when the local law doesn't oblige the pharma companies to put a full list of the components in clear way, nothing can change.

I live in Kenya. To ask for money is common but always there is a reason - somebody's sick, school fees etc. It's never just give me money unless the idlers on the side of the road.

I know the pharmacists will give out tablets in envelope but if a pro accepts this he's stupid. Take the sealed ones with the leaflet and leave the leftovers for normal people. I know you're not saying this is what happened Asbel.

If contamination is an issue it's a new one to me and I'm interested to know more if it's documented anywhere.

Renato Canova wrote:

One thing I'm sure is that the mentality of Asbel didn't include the possibility to look at doping for enhancing his performances. But this doesn't exclude the possibility he took EPO, maybe unconsciously, inside some medicine he took when was injured.

I can only describe my feeling, and it is that Asbel is not a "voluntary" cheater as person.

One thing I’m sure is that you are a charlatan.

Ghost1 wrote:

Renato has confirmed what many of us think - namely that Asbel did not voluntarily dope, and as Renato said, Asbel absolutely does not need to dope, because doing so would have no positive outcome on his physical condition and fitness.

Renato has known Asbel since he was a gangly teenager, and his words are sincere, therefore it would be a travesty to convict Asbel and damage his career, after all the farcical procedures which have come to light, indicating that the case should be thrown out, dismissed.

He will be missing from Doha tonight, but should be allowed to resume his career asap.

Many? Maybe 3 or 4 tops.

Maybe Africans should avoid all these modern " medicines" and stick with the Witch Doctors.

Basically just make Track and Field and Road Racing strictly amateur again. This will clean out all the dodgy coaches and agents from the sport. By default the sport will then largely clean itself up although there will always a be a few hard-core cheats but nothing like the number there is right now.

Yes, none of these people are coming to Kenya out of complete selfless love of amateur running. I don't see any of them eager to develop runners in Angola, Malawi or Burkina Faso. I think Ethiopia has it right; run a tight ship, control who comes in and out of their country, with loads of bureaucracy before you can access their runners and look: less foreign interference, no major drug busts.

Renato Canova wrote:

One thing I'm sure is that the mentality of Asbel didn't include the possibility to look at doping for enhancing his performances. But this doesn't exclude the possibility he took EPO, maybe unconsciously, inside some medicine he took when was injured.

I can only describe my feeling, and it is that Asbel is not a "voluntary" cheater as person.

El Keniano wrote:

Yes, none of these people are coming to Kenya out of complete selfless love of amateur running. I don't see any of them eager to develop runners in Angola, Malawi or Burkina Faso. I think Ethiopia has it right; run a tight ship, control who comes in and out of their country, with loads of bureaucracy before you can access their runners and look: less foreign interference, no major drug busts.

Disgraceful attitude.

We all know Ethiopia has gotten their success by not allowing people in to test their cheats.

Now that's what you want from Kenya?

You accept they're all cheating, but you think it's unfair that they're getting busted?

Renato Canova wrote:

One thing I'm sure is that the mentality of Asbel didn't include the possibility to look at doping for enhancing his performances. But this doesn't exclude the possibility he took EPO, maybe unconsciously, inside some medicine he took when was injured.

You're off your rocker pal.

He got a bad case of weak mind disease, and he's had it for years.

Why do you constantly defend these cheaters? Have you got something to hide?