Why are drugs so commonly accepted in the gym industry but not for distance running?

ex-runner wrote:

Running is bad for you. It knackers your knees and other lower limb joints. It increases your levels of stress hormones and intense training impacts on your ability to get the right amount of rest. It suppresses your testosterone also. And the stress on your heart from tough aerobic sessions often lasting up to two hours has been shown to actually be bad for cardiovascular health long term. It makes sense that if you keep your heart rate at 180bpm for an hour several times a week it might not be that good for it long term.

"Running is bad for you?" I guess that's why your user name is "ex-runner?" There is some evidence that supports some of those risks you've pointed out - but it's controversial. However, running doesn't cause OA or any other joint disease pathology in otherwise healthy joints (no previous trauma or surgeries). In fact, the evidence strongly suggests that running has a protective effect against OA in an otherwise healthy joint:

Natty bodybuilders are not that impressive, so everyone juices to be on the same playing field. I think it is still frowned upon in olympic lifting.

It's less obvious when a runner is juicing in their body, but their times show it and it's not fair to world record holders that are natty so people resent them for cheating.

The philosophy of drug use for competition vs. for personal improvement is probably a little different. If you hop in a race while on drugs you're taking away from other people. If you use drugs to see how big/strong you can get but never compete, all you have to worry about is the effect the drug has on you long term.

If you have perfect biomechanics then of course running won't damage your joints or cause soreness but for large proportions of the population this is not the case.

Everything I said is true. Intensive and overly frequent aerobic training causes scarring on the heart and increases the risk of CV problems later in life. Testosterone is suppressed, cortisol is increased, sleep is adversely affected etc.

There is a huge range of injuries commonly picked up by runners that are pretty much absent in other sports, shin splints, stress fractures, tendonitis, tendon tears, range of knee issues etc.

I'm not talking about jogging a few times a week. I'm referring to what everyone here considers being a runner; College-style training involving things like double days, long hard sessions several times a week and doing more running as 'recovery'.

Honestly just listen to Ryan Hall.

And yes, injury finished off my running. Injuries caused by running too much and not having the biomechanics of Mo Farah.

Gym and bodybuilding aren’t real sports. Powerlifting and strongman seem to not care in order to attract a bigger market.

Why do you avoid deadlifts and squats? I find those two lifts to be some of the most valuable to my overall lifting program.

deadlifts/squats wrote:

Why do you avoid deadlifts and squats? I find those two lifts to be some of the most valuable to my overall lifting program.

I don't, but I was replying to the ideas put forward by another poster that lifting causes back problems. For novices, avoiding squats and deadlifts until you know what you are doing can be an easy way to avoid that.

Jones 12uns wrote:

Distance runners have different methods of drug usage... steroids are not the mainstream form of drug that they take. They often use a method called "Blood doping" where they take blood out of their body, freeze it and rebuild their red blood count, and then insert the stored blood back inside their back into their bodies (makes it easier to send oxygen to their muscles). It is supposedly very bad for your health as you age, and can cause death at early ages. I've heard things about steroids being bad for your health, but if it's not true I wouldn't know. However, distance runners don't often use steroids as a method of doping, so I think he is addressing that other form of drug usage instead.

I dont think anybody has done this since the 70's.

EPO- look it up.

The reason I think bodybuilders are all ok with drugs is that it's just recognized that they are going for something beyond the norm, these almost comic book like physiques are not possible with out the benefits of drugs.

Hard to imagine but it would be like if distance runners thought training was bad, and created an unfair advantage. That you were supposed to show up to the track natural and untrained, and see who is the fastest on that day. We could then celebrate who the real fastest natural runner is.

Obviously we accept that training is necessary to be the best and to achieve high level results. That's how body builders see drugs, heck they even call it "gear". It's as basic to the sport as sweat pants and dumbbells.

Steroids shrink your balls wrote:

Bodybuilding is no more a sport than competing in a ms universe contest. Accordingly the typical participant is of low intelligence.

They should start asking beauty contest like questions in bodybuilding competitions. That would be entertaining (for the first minute).

Name withheld wrote:

RejectRunner wrote:

SO why? Why do runners hate drugs...?

Runners don't hate drugs...the majority of elites/pros are juicing. Look at how many get caught.

Practically everyone on LRC accuses NOP athletes of systematically juicing.

weldo johnson:

LetsRun.com:

"...As we’ve written about in the past, LetsRun.com founder Weldon Johnson visited doctor Anthony Galea in Canada for treatment, and Galea was later busted for importing HGH into the US and Weldon didn’t dope."

"And Aden himself has not yet been convicted — though things obviously look very bad for him. Yet on the other side of the coin, associations do matter — if they didn’t, British Athletics would not be going to such great lengths to deny an association with Aden."

IGF-1 is “just like giving someone human growth hormone (HGH),” said Don Catlin, the former head of U.C.L.A.’s Olympic Analytical Lab, best known for breaking the Bay Area Laboratory Co-operative doping ring. “It goes to the same kinds of RECEPTORS and turns them on.”

In animals, if IGF-1 is injected into the body, muscles grow. If an animal is produced with genes that cause one muscle to overproduce IGF-1, that muscle grows, and if a tendon is injured, IGF-1 speeds healing.

One of the two tests used to detect growth hormone should also detect abuse of IGF-1. It’s called the marker test and what it actually measures is not growth hormone but growth hormone’s effects — an INCREASE IN IGF-1 and an INCREASE IN ONE OF THE METABOLITES RELEASED WHEN THE TENDON IS BEING REPAIRED.

The other growth hormone test, the isoform test, looks directly for the hormone and so it would not pick up IGF-1.

IGF-1 is made in response to growth hormone and is needed for growth hormone to have its effects on muscles and other tissues.

Growth hormone is synthesized in the pituitary gland, and then travels to the liver, which then responds by producing IGF-1. The IGF-1 is bound to binding proteins in the PLASMA. Therefore, PLATELET RICH PLASMA (PRP) INJECTIONS CONTAIN CONCENTRATED AMOUNTS OF GROWTH FACTORS SUCH AS IGF-1. (Whoops for wejo.)

Update Mr. Weldon Johnson's "Miracle Man" Dr. Anthony Galea:

Galea's arrest in 2009 for smuggling human growth hormone (HGH) into the United States raised suspicion that... he might have COMBINED HGH WITH HIS PRP THERAPY. (Whoops.)

Galea was found carrying a stimulant that is banned by the Olympics when he arrived in Sydney during the 2000 Summer Olympics. He was never charged and was allowed to enter the country, but Australian customs seized his medical bag.[11]

On December 15, 2009, The New York Times and the Associated Press reported that Galea was the subject of a joint investigation by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and the Federal Bureau of Investigation's Buffalo Field Office for allegedly providing elite athletes with performance-enhancing drugs,[5] as well as criminal conspiracy.[12] The drugs were Actovegin (legal in Canada, but not the US) and human growth hormone.[5] Galea was arrested in Toronto on October 15, 2009 but never faced charges.[12]

In the United States, Galea was charged with drug smuggling, conspiring to lie to federal agents, unlawful possession with intent to distribute and practicing medicine without a license.

On July 6, 2011, Galea pleaded guilty to a lesser charge of bringing mislabelled drugs into the United States for the purpose of treating professional athletes.[13] According to the New York Times and CNN, Galea was convicted of a felony. As part of the plea agreement, he is required to cooperate with investigators and disclose the identities of his clients and their treatments.[13]

On December 16, 2011 Galea was sentenced to one year unsupervised release, and no accompanying jail time (above time already served, one day).

Dr. Anthony "Miracle Man" Galea is not allowed to enter the United States without authorization from the United States Department of Homeland Security.[14]

This does not look good for weldo.

8/10

So far we have summed up the reasons: Culture and vanity. As well as only being detrimental to ones health and not taking away from others in a competition.

This all makes sense. I guess everything really is determined on the culture of the sport.

Also, to the guy who said heavy running is bad, I agree with you to an extent. When I was running 40-50mpw and crushing workouts, I had problems with fat gain at 1,900. I always thought I had a slow metabolism but all I needed was muscle tissue I guess because I'm eating almost a 1k calories over what I was eating and I'm getting leaner. I've gained 6lbs.,but have more visible abs and a whole lot more muscle. I run like 2-3mpw now and my only cardio is playing volleyball after school, 1x a week h.i.i.t sprints(4x5 min of bearcrawls, suicides,burpees etc...) and one day of explosive jumping and weighted hill sprints I use as gpp work.

I don't know why, I'm burning less calories, doing more anabolic work and losing fat while obviously gaining muscle. I have a theory that maybe some people can't handle the stresses of too much catabolic work. Maybe its genetics or something but catabolic work makes me depressed and fu**ed up. Before you start saying diet, I also ran while eating the same amount of calories, I just gained a bunch of fat and it made poor performances. We are obviously all built different but maybe some of us aren't built to be in a big catabolic state.

Runningart2004 wrote:

Also, intelligence is subject specific. Talk to a successful bodybuilder about nutrition or a good powerlifter about the physics of the lift.

Alan

I can't find any bodybuiders or powerlifters that go to my gym but if I see any powerlifting/bodybuilding meet 10-15 miles from me, I'm going straight there to watch and learn. There is an old man bodybuilder at my school(hes like 60 but fu*king strong) I've asked him about nutrition and he just recommended I get more protein and fat.

ex-runner wrote:

deadlifts/squats wrote:

Why do you avoid deadlifts and squats? I find those two lifts to be some of the most valuable to my overall lifting program.

I don't, but I was replying to the ideas put forward by another poster that lifting causes back problems. For novices, avoiding squats and deadlifts until you know what you are doing can be an easy way to avoid that.

Sitting at a desk all day does more to harm your back. Long term.....I would say running does more to harm your back.

Alan

100m wrote:

Gym and bodybuilding aren’t real sports. Powerlifting and strongman seem to not care in order to attract a bigger market.

Thats debatable, it does take lots of physical exertion to become a good bodybuilder. It is essentially sport. The bulk, the cut, training, everything is done so the muscles are big and proportional. I could see the other side, though. The guys who think its a mans beauty pageant.

Runningart2004 wrote:

I might be one of the few people on here who has actually competed in a bodybuilding show.

Even at the low level amateur NPC show I competed in the aura of drugs was everywhere. You simply didn’t win your weight class without drugs. Also drugs aren’t a cure all. I beat at least one steroid user in my weight class.

People do it because it’s accepted as part of the culture. It’s not healthy, but neither is running 100+ miles a week.

As far as powerlifting goes.....that’s a niche within a niche. Look up local powerlifting results some day. You might have 100 total competing powerlifters in an average state.

Also, intelligence is subject specific. Talk to a successful bodybuilder about nutrition or a good powerlifter about the physics of the lift.

Alan

I competed once, too. A long long time ago. I know the NPC didn't test way back then (90s). Probably still doesn't. I competed in a tested organization that doesn't exist anymore. Testing was done by polygraph. lol. I realized that there were people using at that show. Didn't care. I still remember scrubbing off that Pro Tan. Good times...

RejectRunner wrote:

100m wrote:

Gym and bodybuilding aren’t real sports. Powerlifting and strongman seem to not care in order to attract a bigger market.

Thats debatable, it does take lots of physical exertion to become a good bodybuilder. It is essentially sport. The bulk, the cut, training, everything is done so the muscles are big and proportional. I could see the other side, though. The guys who think its a mans beauty pageant.

There's a case to be made for what I say and what you say. However, bodybuilding outcomes rely entirely on subjective judgment of a physique achieved in large part using exogenous agents. I realize that the winners, like Ronnie Coleman, were naturally strong and built, but their physiques wouldn't have achieved anywhere near steroid/doping-level physiques if natural. Ultimately, the subjective judgment of a physique determines the winner. In sprinting/running, it's purely objective. Don't do drugs.

Stupid thread to start... the gym industry vs distance running? I guess the first thing is, distance running in its various capacities are olympic events, governed by WADA guidelines (thus, PEDs are "deviant" and the "exception rather than the rule"), PED users are "cheats", and there is a highly negative stigma attached to using them. I'm assuming you mean bodybuilding, when you say "gym industry"? We're talking about apples and oranges... literally none of that applies to bodybuilding. Could some of that be the reason?

That's pretty much like saying "why are drugs so accepted in the hospital, but not in the crack house down on the corner"? Same difference