Is 54 or better possible for me in the 400

Based on your 200m times from junior year it’s going to be hard but not impossible. To hit 54 you would need to split a 26 +28. That requires 24 low 200 speed unless you’re an aerobic beast which you don’t sound like. Everyone dies the last 100m of a 400 so you have to be physically stronger to power through the last part of the race. Learn to get out that first 70-80m, hold speed to 200-250, work the curve (his increase effort level again), and then pump arms + plus increase turnover on the homestretch. I was a 52/2:00/4:33 as a senior.

Thanks for the reply, i should have added that I ran the 200m ~ 20 mins after running a 57 400m but it was windy and cold. Obviously, I know it doesn't make a huge difference but yeah. I only ran the 200 doubling up in like dual meets so I think I probably have low 25 200m speed if I ran it on fresh legs last year. I usually go out as fast as possible and just try to hold on, so I think changing strategy will definitely help. Also, may I ask what your 200m time was senior year seeing you ran 52? Thanks again

I think you certainly can do it, depending on the availability of a decent coach, even if its someone who just has enough interest to give you honest feedback on drills, form, can video you, etc. Of course a teammate near your level is invaluable. Sprinters are more social than distance guys for some good reasons.

Right now I am taking a raw talent who is 48 and never run track, but he is very successful in other sports, and converting him into a 4/800 guy. He has time trialed 25.7, 60.7 (with 26/7 first 200!) and 2:18. My goal is to get him to 54/2:10 by mid-summer. I've coached many adults at this level but this guy seems like something special.

If you want to compare notes, post on....

Sub54OrBust wrote:

Thanks for the reply, i should have added that I ran the 200m ~ 20 mins after running a 57 400m but it was windy and cold. Obviously, I know it doesn't make a huge difference but yeah. I only ran the 200 doubling up in like dual meets so I think I probably have low 25 200m speed if I ran it on fresh legs last year. I usually go out as fast as possible and just try to hold on, so I think changing strategy will definitely help. Also, may I ask what your 200m time was senior year seeing you ran 52? Thanks again

You have to learn to go out hard in a controlled manner. I’ll share a story to illustrate. As a frosh I couldn’t break 60 in the open 400 or 4x4 even though I was running mid 12s and 25s. I tried to muscle through the whole race which only works for about 180m and then life begins to suck. I found out how to run a better 400 by accident. One of our 4x800 guys quit before the second to last meet of the year and my coach threw me in the relay because I would do a thousand sprints to warm up before races. He put me as anchor and we were one spot away from medalling when I got the stick, but way back. So I decided to go out hard yet controlled and then try to catch them on the second lap. Instead of sprinting all out I stayed “relaxed” and caught up to the back of main pack around with 350m left. Then a piano and a 747 landed on my back and I did the tinman the rest of the way. I was pretty disappointed when I came back to talk to coach but the old man was ecstatic. I asked why he was so happy because we just lost out on a medal. He said you just ran a 54 on your first lap! My splits turned out to be pretty ugly, 54/78 but I figured out how to run a 400. It would take me much longer to figure out to run the 800.

To answer your other question, as a senior I could probably run mid to high 23 but never ran the open 200 because points were easier in the 800 and 1600. At an indoor meet as a junior I ran 53.76 FAT and could hang with my two friends who ran 22.9 and 23.2. Never ran the open 200 as a junior as well. Senior year, I was 5’6 150 with a 400 lb squat and about 15 mpw. Heart and competitiveness made up for the lack of miles. Was also an all conference defensive back and one of the better running backs in the conference.

Your 300 time and lack of race pace suggests a sub 54 is possible. Focus on getting out and staying relaxed, but not slowing down. Don’t clench your jaw or fists because this will cause the rest of your body to tighten up. Watch some MJ or WVN races. Best of luck!

That story is hilarious. 54 first lap!

Google: latif thomas 400 training

mike hurst 400 training

http://media.speedendurance.com/Mike_Hurst_on_400m_training.pdf

Sorry for the late replies, I've been busy with school and practice..

Wow, I don't even want to imagine what your legs must've felt like the final 150 or so of that 800m haha. But your story helps, I think I need to practice running in a more relaxed/controlled manner. When I sprint I do feel my shoulders and arms get tight and I know that is a loss of energy efficiency. Also, I think my block starts could use some work. A team mate of mine told me he ran the first 50m of the 400 like he was running an indoor 60m dash and would stay controlled after, he went to state as a 49.9

And yeah competitiveness definitely makes up mileage for some. DB is imo one of the hardest positions.

I'd like to see what my squat max is because I definitely feel like I've gotten stronger/more explosive from previous years. Possibly with just maturing but last year I could not even touch the rim and this year I can grab it and nearly dunk off one foot.

I watched Wade in the 2016 Olympics and it's crazy how it looks like he's speeding up in the last 100 and in lane 8. Thanks again for the advice!

Thank you, I think it's possible just going to be hard. My coach seems to have a pretty good idea of what he's doing. He ran some fast times in high school and ran sub 50 his senior year, so I have trust in what he says which is important.

I definitely think you can get your guy to 54.Not running track and following your training (along with staying healthy) will give him a boost in his times. And would for sure help him in his other sports. He's got a lot of time from now until the summer, so it seems pretty reasonable he can achieve it.

Today we did block starts for 10, 20, 30, and 40 x2 for each. Max recovery because it was fast. Focus was to drive out and to make sure you use big arms and keep your head down for the first 20 or so meters. We do a lot of drills too beforehand with high knees, etc. as well. Blocks I feel like I'm improving in but I still need some practice with driving and using my arms correctly. My coach also video records us in slow motion so we can see how we look after each start.

Thanks again for the reply.

First indoor meet after a week and a half of practice I split a 57 in the 4x400 as the first runner and high jumped 5’8. Kind of surprised I ran a 57 considering the track is 2.2 laps for a 400 and the turns are pretty tight. (And slick)

I got work to do but I’m already in better shape than last year at this point by 4 seconds. Mileage has been pretty low so I will do a long run tomorrow of 9 miles just to work the aerobic capacity. Monday I am doing Hills and have a dual meet on Thursday. My goal is 56

Improve your 800, mile, 5k, and your 400 and even 200 will drop dramatically. I know this is in contrast to what all the posters on here who think running for 50+ seconds is not primarily an aerobic will say. But for a guy not blessed with great top end natural speed (you), improving endurance is the way to go for greater gains.

I agree with this guy, but to a point. You need to still be doing sprint work and lifting and all that. But I got much faster at the 400m after a summer or 70mpw. But I was also lifting and doing strides a lot, so you need to find a balance and work both ends of the spectrum.

Yeah that does make some sense. my coach has me run with the sprinters and sometimes the distance runners when they do strength building interval work. However, I think I may start running in the mornings on my own to get in 4-5 miles + a tempo on a certain day through each week. Carrying into the weekend, I usually have Saturday and Sunday off, so I plan on doing a long run ranging from 9-12 miles on one of those days.

Yeah, I definitely agree. Like I said to the other poster above, I run with the sprinters but sometimes do workouts different from them with the distance guys that focus on strength/speed. We only have practice 5 days a week for sprinters, so I think either on Saturday or Sunday I'll add in a 9-12 mile long run per week with strides. Also, I plan on adding doubles by running easy in the morning and having sprint practice in the afternoon a few times a week. Or if I can't just running easy after the sprinters practice. Thanks for the advice

Good work on your opener! Sounds like you are well on your way (seems like outdoors in the 400 is about a second faster).

My guys are going to be doing some DII/DIII local meets this spring starting in 3-4 weeks. Seems like most of the 4/800 races the slowest guys are 54-55, but an occasional slower outlier. If my guy can squeeze a 57 from the outset I would be very happy. In any case it will be good experience as he has never raced the 400 before (and only 800 once where he led the whole way in a slow heat).

Next week we will begin race-paced work specifically for the first time.

Good coach.

Thanks for the reply, I just took the time to read through this PDF along with looking at some of Latif Thomas' training. Pretty useful info, the 400 is a very technical race and I know I could use some work on my block start and final ~100m or so with form.

Thank you! Good luck to your guys.

I'm hoping in about a month I can be around 55. Our last indoor meet is a 200m track and we can use our spike inserts as well. I think next week we will start more race work specifically as well, since we have a few invites coming up.

I ran for the Santa Monica Track Club with Olympic gold medalists Steve Lewis and Danny Everett. I don't know of any world class sprinters that train 800, mile, 5k or cross country for the sprints.

sprinthard wrote:

I ran for the Santa Monica Track Club with Olympic gold medalists Steve Lewis and Danny Everett. I don't know of any world class sprinters that train 800, mile, 5k or cross country for the sprints.

He is just looking for sub-54, not sub-44 lol.

That said, Korir ran 44.53 off of XC/800 training