Road Racing men Training Thread Week Ending 2-11-18

So much cool stuff happening in here.

RRR, I said it on Strava, but awesome racing this weekend. Super excited for your half to come up this spring.

Pappy, super consistent running. I'm curious to see how your fitness keeps coming along with those all those miles.

RunGuy Midwest, nice work on those miles. I'm hoping I can get up to your level (mid 50s is my current high). The marathon I'm thinking about is 11 weeks out. Looking forward to learning from your workouts. That tempo on Tuesday looks solid, did it feel pretty doable?

Working Harder, nice week, and interesting stuff on the neuroma. I've got one too. Haven't tried the Saucony Breakthrus yet, I'll have to look for them. Any other shoes that have worked well for you recently? I'm currently in the NB Fresh Foam 1080 v. 7, in 2EE, and they're alright.

wdude, awesome to see you jumped into the thread! Way to kill it on the 7 at HMP workout. Can't wait to see how the race goes for you.

Allen, there's always hope for coming back, though it doesn't feel like it in the middle of the hurts. Sorry you're a bit down. Thanks for the confidence on a marathon time. I don't think 2:45 is there yet. I've never done one, and I'd actually just like to break 3. Even that seems tough. Saturday's run was really good, and it surprised me, but I'm guessing those paces were between HM and M. Just trying to feel everything out and enjoy the process.

Cool to see everyone's logs. I'm on Strava and I enjoy the calendar function and how everything is laid out. I also use a super old school notepad document on my desktop, but this is more for supplemental insight rather than full logging. So I'll link to articles or programs I'm interested in, people who's training looks like it might work for me, stuff like that.

But I love that marker board with 5 cycles of marathon training, angryjohnny! That is awesome.

I have flat feet, severe overpronator. I once dropped to a lower drop show (4mm) and severely injured my calf muscles which led to a whole year of Achilles problems. I might have transitioned too fast but you can understand my fear of ditching orthotics and trading in my Structures for a pair of Bostons.

runrincerepeat wrote:

GT - I will take a wild guess and say you are in a profession where minute details are important.Architect/Engineer/Scientist or similar. That looks like some detailed data!

This was my Jan-Feb 2016 log (pre strava)

Racing is a timed event...it's not just the minute details that matter but the seconds as well! (#pun)

At least I'm not tracking a seven day running average of my weight over the last 3 years...Although I have been wishing I had some historical data on that lately. Ha.

I haven't really tried anything else besides some NB Vazees. The neuroma thing is a bit newer, it actually started the day before my 100 miler when I was walking barefoot on a hard wood floor. I've found toe spreaders really help me with it and keep it manageable for the most part.

iwishimay wrote:

the conversation in here is so rich, it's a shame it has to be using message board technology from 1997. i know it's not likely, but it would be awesome if this was a conversation on reddit or slack or something civilized.

I'm new here but I agree. We could also take this over to AdvancedRunning on Reddit. It's a good, positive community of runners and comes with all the advantages of reddit, moderators, functionality, readability, etc.

Joining the party:

Me: 33 male

Goal: Half marathon in 5 weeks hoping to go under 1:10 (PR 1:10:59)

MPW: According to strava I've averaged 68.3 over the last 4 weeks!

Last week:

Raced a 5 miler on Sunday and broke 26 for the first time! It felt good to get that monkey off my back.

M: Struggled through 6.2 miles @ 7:45 pace

T: Progressive MLR of 14.1. First 5.6 @ 7:23, Next 8.4 @ 6:00

W: 5.1 @ 7:59

Th: 8.2 @ 7:45 with 2% incline on treadmill

F: 8.1 @ 7:39

Sat: 4x1200 w/ equal time recovery @ 3:35, 3:34, 3:34, 3:32, 4x400 w equal recovery in 66, 66, 67, bailed, 10.9 total

Sun: 7 @ 7:15

Total: 59.6

After a two-day taper and no LR on Sunday, I felt the need to do a bigger midweek run in place of intervals on Tuesday. That was a mistake, at least in the short term. My legs were trash for the rest of the week until sometime mid workout Saturday and resulted in my lowest mileage week of 2018.

I'm racing a 5k this weekend and then will turn my focus to the HM for the next 4 weeks.

too hot wrote:

I have flat feet, severe overpronator. I once dropped to a lower drop show (4mm) and severely injured my calf muscles which led to a whole year of Achilles problems. I might have transitioned too fast but you can understand my fear of ditching orthotics and trading in my Structures for a pair of Bostons.

For years, my wet footprint on the floor showed no arch at all. But I noticed recently that my footprint looks normal now. Could I have cured my flat-footedness by ditching the motion-control shoes and consciously adopting a mid-foot landing? The last couple of years I have trained in a cheap 3mm drop shoe, and raced in a cheap but lighter 4mm drop shoe. I didn't know what the drops were until I looked them up recently. I have no idea how all this fits into the equation -- also bearing in mind I am currently suffering from runners knee and a sometimes painful achilles (insertional). Those problems became real issues after doubling my mileage AND adding workouts last year. Too many variables to confidently assign causation to any single factor.

Working Harder wrote:

I haven't really tried anything else besides some NB Vazees. The neuroma thing is a bit newer, it actually started the day before my 100 miler when I was walking barefoot on a hard wood floor. I've found toe spreaders really help me with it and keep it manageable for the most part.

Oh man, that's an awful time for a neuroma to come up (not that there's ever a good time). Sounds like you are managing it well now. I got mine over 14 years ago. It actually took me many years to figure out how to run with it. Super frustrating.

GT - Luckily my weight has stayed under 160 consistent for almost a year. Hitting round 153ish these days (been cutting back on the beer during this harder phase. . I feel 150 is the magic number for when I know I am ready to race that half.

I am looking forward to the trail running after the half.. Its gonna be as many miles and beers as I want!

BobbyTea wrote:

iwishimay wrote:

the conversation in here is so rich, it's a shame it has to be using message board technology from 1997. i know it's not likely, but it would be awesome if this was a conversation on reddit or slack or something civilized.

I'm new here but I agree. We could also take this over to AdvancedRunning on Reddit. It's a good, positive community of runners and comes with all the advantages of reddit, moderators, functionality, readability, etc.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AdvancedRunning/

Welcome to the thread! Solid 5-miler and good luck on achieving that HM goal.

Personally I prefer the letsrun message boards to reddit. Upvoting and everything that comes with it is irritating to me.

Hey guys, has anyone here run a marathon in the takumi sens?

I always hear people saying good things about them for 5k -> HM but that it's not enough shoe for the marathon, but today I did a long run in them (8mi E + 8mi M + 1mi E) and my feet actually felt much better than after 11.5mi in the adios yesterday, so I'm considering using them for a marathon in 8 weeks.

What do you think?

I think you would be okay. It is a 7.5 ounce shoe. My hitogamis are about the same weight and I would def go 'Thonning in them.

If I'm reading Running Warehouse correctly the Sen's actually have a higher forefoot stack height than the Adios. 23/13 vs 22/16. Could make sense if you're a forefoot striker for 26 miles.

I think it was made to be a marathon flat no? I dont think I could personally go any lighter tho. I ran the 8k in the Skechers GoMeb Speeds. 4mm drop and 6ish ounces. I def am not used to the low drop as I could feel it the next day, but they helped get me up on my front foot at the end of the race for sure.

Gordon Tremeshko wrote:

If I'm reading Running Warehouse correctly the Sen's actually have a higher forefoot stack height than the Adios. 23/13 vs 22/16. Could make sense if you're a forefoot striker for 26 miles.

Interesting. I'm looking at my adios and my takumis and the takumi seems to have a higher forefoot stack but I'm not sure that that it has boost material all the way through like the adios. Looking at the side it seems like it stops halfway through but looking under the shoe it seems like at the middle boost might go all the way to the sole.

And I am a forefoot striker although my foot strike is a bit different with the right and the left foot.

runrincerepeat wrote:

I think it was made to be a marathon flat no?

I'm not sure.. I see Japanese elite runners wearing them for the marathon but never any westerners or east africans, and here in the forums they're mostly described as a 5k through HM shoe.

I'm wearing them for a half marathon in a couple weeks and then deciding for that.

The takumi sen and takumi ren both just have the boost material in the forefoot. The ren's boost goes back a little more.

consistency wrote:

RunGuy Midwest, nice work on those miles. I'm hoping I can get up to your level (mid 50s is my current high). The marathon I'm thinking about is 11 weeks out. Looking forward to learning from your workouts. That tempo on Tuesday looks solid, did it feel pretty doable?

.

Thanks, consistency! The first mile of the tempo was the toughest and slowest. It was definitely doable beyond that. The recovery was probably 2 days though, so it took a bit more out of me than I anticipated. Had a really nice workout on the treadmill Monday night. 3 x 2 miles with 2 minutes really easy btw - 13:20, 13:11, 13:08. Easy pace for some of the posters here, but for me, it felt great!

Pappy - Yeah, wish I had a foam roller with me on this trip. I think I managed to aggravate things by continuing to run. I'll be flying back home Thurs. so that gives me a good excuse to take the day off from running. I'll take Friday off too. We'll see how it feels Sat. and if it is in question I will skip the long run and give it more rest. I'm far enough out from my race that taking time off to heal an injury should only be a minor set back depending on how long it takes.

Allen - Weekend long runs are generally straight from Daniel's 2Q plan. Weekday workouts are abbreviated. I trim the bulk of the easy mileage and sometimes trim a bit of the quality mileage. Maybe later in the training cycle I will be able to fit 15mi run in on a weekday. 2T does indeed refer to 2 miles at tempo pace. I'll be little more verbose in the future and try to include pace and splits. I am now realizing that the Daniel's workouts in this plan are big for me with regard to my weekly mileage. I'm using the 56-70mi 2Q plan figuring I would be peaking around 64mpw. I am averaging around 50mpw at the moment. I do have to admit I have not made regular workouts as a part of my training in the past.

Shoes

I appreciate the shoe discussion, I have been searching for a pair of running shoes that would be plush under my forefoot and low drop. My feet feel a bit beat up at the end of a long run. I just Picked up a pair of Saucony Freedom that I will be trying out soon hopefully. I do most of my running in a pair Saucony Kinvara. I also have a pair of Hoka Cliftons, but they either have too high an arch or are too narrow in that area and hurt my arches so they have been relegated to the shorter weekday runs. Also, I am not sure I like having a sole that thick. I never heard of Takumi before, I may have to check them out when it is time for another pair of shoes.

Sorry y'all. last week traveling in Japan and this week is

Chinese New Year!!!

Having a hard time doing what I need to do, not to mention writing about it here.

So last week I did week 5 of Pfitz 55 mpw and this week on week 4. I'm executing what I need to execute.

I love you guys, but family comes first, then running, then writing about running... y'all know where I'm coming from.

But just in case you don't, I'm coming from the in-laws' spare bedroom, 6 beers and 2 Kahlua coffees at 5:30 pm... gotta last until 12am... hanging on my brother-in-law's shoulder into the first turn...

It's all about endurance.

Xin nian kuai le! Gong xi fa tsai!

Gordon Tremeshko wrote:

If I'm reading Running Warehouse correctly the Sen's actually have a higher forefoot stack height than the Adios. 23/13 vs 22/16. Could make sense if you're a forefoot striker for 26 miles.

I was browsing websites about the takumi sen, and in the french adidas website they have it as a 9mm drop shoe (25.5/16.5), which is weird because every other website out there has number that matches yours.

This is a new colorway but that shouldn't change anything, right? It's still the 3.