Training effect running on tired legs

Before I start, I will say that if you are in your third week at 80 and are starting to slow down after HOLDING 80 mpw for three weeks, then yes, something is wrong and you need to back off and take an easy week. You should have adapted to it by now.

What works for me when I am upping the mileage and am starting to reach fairly high levels is that the same thing happens as what has happened to you - easy pace slows down, top speed drops, etc., - but it happens mostly in the first week of increased mileage. and then after a week-10 days at that new mileage I recover and adapt, and am able to resume the same paces as as before. I then generally hold for a week and up the distance again if I am not due for an easy week. To me, it is an adapt/recover thing and it seems fine.

To clarify, the part I put in bold should have been "towards the end of week one, leading into the beginning of week two."

notsure wrote:

I'm still pushing myself as hard as I can but at the same perceived effort as before, my paces are about 30-40 sec/mile slower.

Red flag.

What exactly are you pushing as hard as you can?

jewbacca wrote:

notsure wrote:

I'm still pushing myself as hard as I can but at the same perceived effort as before, my paces are about 30-40 sec/mile slower.

Red flag.

What exactly are you pushing as hard as you can?

Good point, I didn't catch that. OP should NOT be pushing easy runs when increasing mileage, or trying to force the issue to make them the same pace as before.

Easy run pace is NOT a constant, regardless of weekly mileage. It changes by the day.

How often should one take these easy weeks, generally speaking? And how aggressive should the cut down be?

notsure wrote:

How often should one take these easy weeks, generally speaking? And how aggressive should the cut down be?

Well, if you are still struggling with 80 mpw after three weeks of it, do it now.

As far as when and how much, there is no "correct" answer - people differ in opinion on this and I suspect age and experience is a factor as well; i.e., if you've been there before (mileage level) rather than it being all-time high mileage for you.

In general though, most people think every 4th week should be the easy week, following three weeks of building. I like to be pretty aggressive with the easy week, but that's just me (probably because I'm not young anymore, as well). I also like repeating the last high week as the start of the next cycle each time. I would probably go:

65, 70, 75, 50

75, 80, 85, 55

85, 90, 95, 60

lollerama wrote:

jewbacca wrote:

Red flag.

What exactly are you pushing as hard as you can?

Good point, I didn't catch that. OP should NOT be pushing easy runs when increasing mileage, or trying to force the issue to make them the same pace as before.

Easy run pace is NOT a constant, regardless of weekly mileage. It changes by the day.

To add on:

The OP also stated "my top end speed workouts are not at a pace which is my top speed anymore."

When I am focused on building mileage I am not doing 'top end speed workouts' at all. I may run 1 or 2 tempos a week to keep it interesting but nothing speed oriented beyond a few strides here and there.

OP, how many days are you running?

joho wrote:

When I am focused on building mileage I am not doing 'top end speed workouts' at all. I may run 1 or 2 tempos a week to keep it interesting but nothing speed oriented beyond a few strides here and there.

When doing high-mileage base training, my coach used to have me doing 10x100m every two weeks. Not crazy hard-flat out sort of thing, but at a decent effort (probably around 90%). I suppose everyone is different, though.

I run every day.

Typically my week looks like this:

M: 7 easy/7 easy (or 20 minute tempo AM with 7 miles easy PM)

T: 10-11 moderate

W: 6x100m full recovery sprints with 8 reps of 4-5 sec hill sprints /7 easy

T: 10-11 moderate

F: 3 easy/7 easy

S: 16-18 (last 3 miles moderate/hard)

S: 7 easy

Relax and do something called a recovery jog.

At least half of your mileage should be slow.

Just go out and jog really easy for about a hour.

People do there easy runs too hard and there hard runs too slow. Remember what lydarid said and that is it is impossible to do too much easy running.