Long interval workouts

If you aren't talking about at a tempo effort, what type of pace are you talking about?

This kind of workout is a staple of many marathon plans, but those are run at about tempo pace, maybe a bit faster, but not as fast as 10k pace.

If you are talking about 10k pace (or faster, which I fear you may be thinking), I would ask what it is you are trying to achieve, and whether you could achieve it another without beating your body up as much as this workout would.

Smoove:

Thank you for the answer. What Newton does is a bit different. I wish I could remember exactly what he does but it's something like this:

2 weeks to go before the state meet:

2 miles all out.

Long rest

1 mile all out

Long rest

1 mile all out

1 week before the big race

1 mile all out

long rest

1 mile all out

3 x 2 miles at 10k pace is a peak workout for an upcoming 10k race.

3 x 2 miles at HMP pace is a good workout for the half marathon, with a 400 or 800 jog in between. You could also do this workout at MP at the start of a training cycle too.

If you are talking about doing 2 mile repeats at faster than 10k pace (i.e. 5k pace) then I would question whether anyone could or should be doing that workout instead of just racing. 2 miles at 5k pace is basically a race.

Donnie wrote:

3 x 2 miles at 10k pace is a peak workout for an upcoming 10k race.

3 x 2 miles at HMP pace is a good workout for the half marathon, with a 400 or 800 jog in between. You could also do this workout at MP at the start of a training cycle too.

If you are talking about doing 2 mile repeats at faster than 10k pace (i.e. 5k pace) then I would question whether anyone could or should be doing that workout instead of just racing. 2 miles at 5k pace is basically a race.

What kind of long run do you do?

Read about Joe Vigil 10k Taper workout. I enjoyed it during XC season as it made me feel very strong and fast.

Fulton J. Sheen wrote:

Who has done 2 x 2 miles and 3 x 2 miles?

(I could see inserting 2 miles fast during a fartlek type run. That is not what I am talking about. I am not talking about a tempo run either.)

Who has had success doing this kind of thing. Joe Newton did the 2 x 2 mile with lots of rest at the very end of each repeat. But they only do it once per season and within the last 4 weeks of the big race.

I think 3 x 2 miles is just too long to be effective. I could be wrong on this one but have not seen it discussed much. Certainly I think it would be a must to have teammates running with you to motivate yourself.

Any thoughts on this one?

2 x 2 miles was a Jim Spivey base staple. I used to do 1-2-1, but was not as fast as Spivey. Next life, I'll do his workout.

easy loper wrote:

Donnie wrote:

3 x 2 miles at 10k pace is a peak workout for an upcoming 10k race.

3 x 2 miles at HMP pace is a good workout for the half marathon, with a 400 or 800 jog in between. You could also do this workout at MP at the start of a training cycle too.

If you are talking about doing 2 mile repeats at faster than 10k pace (i.e. 5k pace) then I would question whether anyone could or should be doing that workout instead of just racing. 2 miles at 5k pace is basically a race.

What kind of long run do you do?

Not sure if you meant to ask me or OP re: long run? I responded to his question re: 2 mile repeats...

As someone playing around with a modified Hanson's plan...is there really reason to do 3x2 miles at MP when you could just do 6 miles at MP? The 6 miles would take less time, be less mentally taxing (at least to me).

Regardless I personally hate 2 mile intervals so I would need real data to convince me to invest in them much at all. I could possibly do them as a broken up road tempo run, but 8 laps of the track is just heavy on my 'not fun' list.

What specific adaptation would I be targeting by running 'relatively hard' for 12-13 minutes that I would miss out on during a 20-minute tempo or 4-minute session at 5k pace?

i have had a few very good HS CC teams and in most years peak my groups at the right time by running 2x2 mile at LT pace after a 6 week cycle of interval training.

The advantage of long intervals at tempo pace over a straight 20 minute tempo run is that you can often get more overall volume in via the long tempo intervals. Someone running 60 miles a week could do 3 x 2 miles at tempo pace with 2:00 rest, which would give them 50% more overall volume at tempo pace than a straight 20 minute tempo run.

That's why they are such a big part of marathon plans.

But I think the 20 minute tempo run has the advantage of getting much of the desired physical adaptation, while also honing the mental skills of fighting through discomfort and locking in a certain pace in the face of discomfort.

So I try to incorporate both long tempo intervals and straight tempo runs (and progressions) in my training plan for LT adaptation purposes.

I just did this starting 7 weeks out in my Chicago run up following Hanson Method - MP less 10 seconds

1m x 6

1.5m x 4

2m x 3

3m x 2

2m x 3

1.5m x 4

1m x 6

Race Week

PatrickSebast wrote:

As someone playing around with a modified Hanson's plan...is there really reason to do 3x2 miles at MP when you could just do 6 miles at MP? The 6 miles would take less time, be less mentally taxing (at least to me).

Regardless I personally hate 2 mile intervals so I would need real data to convince me to invest in them much at all. I could possibly do them as a broken up road tempo run, but 8 laps of the track is just heavy on my 'not fun' list.

What specific adaptation would I be targeting by running 'relatively hard' for 12-13 minutes that I would miss out on during a 20-minute tempo or 4-minute session at 5k pace?

I agree with you re: 3 x 2m at MP. I only included it my original answer to the OP by saying someone "could" do this 3 x 2 workout at MP at the beginning of the cycle if they hadn't done workouts in a while or were trying to get a feel for MP. I think MP runs should be longer and continuous given the race distance and more comfortable pace.

I've used 3 x 2m at HMP with decent success for half marathon training, specially early in a training cycle. But even then have found longer continuous tempos in the 4-6m range to be more helpful from a mental and racing point of view.

Fulton J. Sheen wrote:

Smoove:

Thank you for the answer. What Newton does is a bit different. I wish I could remember exactly what he does but it's something like this:

2 weeks to go before the state meet:

2 miles all out.

Long rest

1 mile all out

Long rest

1 mile all out

1 week before the big race

1 mile all out

long rest

1 mile all out

Doing like that would be similar to open the owen every 5 min to check if the buns are ready ... :)

Smoove wrote:

If you aren't talking about at a tempo effort, what type of pace are you talking about?

This kind of workout is a staple of many marathon plans, but those are run at about tempo pace, maybe a bit faster, but not as fast as 10k pace.

If you are talking about 10k pace (or faster, which I fear you may be thinking), I would ask what it is you are trying to achieve, and whether you could achieve it another without beating your body up as much as this workout would.

Here I agree with Smoove. :)

The fact that the 3x2 mile is more mentally taxing to you would be the reason to do it. When preparing for a Marathon the physical adaptations are only part of the preparation. The mental adaptation is also critical. Work on YOUR weaknesses, become mentally stronger.

My collegiate coach had us doing 3x2, 4x2, and even 3x3mi during the cross season and early into track for the 10k group. The 2mile reps were much easier to handle than the 3mile reps on the short rest we were given. Everything was usually done at or just slower than race pace.

Nowadays any work I do like that is all tempo effort on very short rest as many have advocated already.