NY Times Article: Marathoners may not need more miles, but instead need to hit the gym for strength training of legs

Wejo:

You should have someone edit your threads. I think you had about ten typos in your last post.

An all-out marathon is bad for the body. We have been saying that for many years. The sad thing is many young kids ruin their bodies by running one.

The old saying is "I know you can do it, but should you?"

Telling it like it is wrote:

An all-out marathon is bad for the body. We have been saying that for many years. The sad thing is many young kids ruin their bodies by running one.

The old saying is "I know you can do it, but should you?"

Maybe true. So as a mid 50's old guy running 26.2 for the 1st time in a few months, maybe I should be content with 3:25 instead of pushing for 3:10. Either way qualifies for other marathons that would be fun to do. Please keep telling us how it is bad to run hard for 26.2 and that I should save those hard efforts for mile or 5K or HM- what is the evidence? I'm listening...

The study seems pretty useless. All it did was determine that muscle damage was greater when running a marathon vs. a half marathon, which is fairly obvious (imo). Also the fastest paced marathoner was 3.5 m/s or a 7:40 pace: not exactly relevant for this board (hopefully).

Ideally there'll be a follow up where they incorporate weight training into an experimental group and then compare results in term of muscle damage and performance.

"BACKGROUND:

While there is widespread scientific information about the physiological challenges imposed on elite endurance runners during competitions, the information regarding the amateur population is scarce. The aim of this study was to compare the physical and physiological load imposed by competing in a real half-marathon vs. a marathon race.

METHODS:

From a larger group of participants, we selected 22 experienced runners who were matched in pairs (11 marathoners and 11 half-marathoners) for age and anthropometric data. Participants completed their respective distances on the same day and circuit while race time was measured by means of chip timing. Sweat samples were obtained during the race using sweat patches. Before and after the race, a sample of venous blood was obtained and jump height was measured during a countermovement jump. Participants also rated their perception of leg muscle pain at the end of the race.

RESULTS:

Running pace was similar for half-marathoners vs. marathoners (3.3±0.4 vs. 3.1±0.4 m·s-1; P=0.36). At the end of the race, jump height reduction (-11±12% vs. -25±19%; P=0.03), serum myoglobin concentration (186.1±93.6 vs. 564.1±370.7 µg·mL-1; P

Ugh, that article's evidence didn't seem to support its conclusions at all. How the heck do you conclude that gym strength training is the missing ingredient, when the study didn't even look at gym strength training. The study sounds like they did this:

1. Marathon runners train more than half-marathon runners

2. Regardless of this difference in training mileage, marathon runners had more physiological damage after their race

3. Random unsupported speculation as to the causes of this difference

dammit letsrun, would you please allow for less than and greater than characters in your posts. yeeeesh.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28222581

Sandy? wrote:

Ugh, that article's evidence didn't seem to support its conclusions at all.

This is exactly the problem. 👍

I help coach a large number (approx. 50) of post collegiate competitive distance runners and I think this article is on to something. Nearly everytime when a marathoner falls off the pace it is because their legs are giving out and not their aerobic engine. As a result, we started to make sure they did hard running (Tempo runs) on HARD SURFACES to ensure their legs got used to the same surface as the marathon. This still has not solved the problem of the legs giving out.

I personally started lifting in the legs (Calves, Quads, and hamstrings) during the past year due to the fact that I had hip surgery (Torn Labrum) 18 months ago to avoid further injury. The benefits have been amazing and the recovery from long hard running is the best of my running career. And I am a young masters runner.

Telling it like it is wrote:

Wejo:

You should have someone edit your threads. I think you had about ten typos in your last post.

That was the edited version!

The original post looked closer to Esperanto than English- or American- Chango help us.

Holy cow wejo what are you on about? The study has absolutely nothing to do with weightlifting. Are you hallucinating?

He makes quite a leap in thinking by offering that strength training will help.

I suggest he do a study with half the runners doing strength work and the other not doing any. Then let's start talking about the benefits of strength training.

biogen wrote:

Also the fastest paced marathoner was 3.5 m/s or a 7:40 pace: not exactly relevant for this board (hopefully).

All that info spewed out and you completely negate it with that comment.

The effects would be worse at a slower pace cause it's more time spent.

Lots of people on this thread making excuses for skipping leg day.

I don't think I've seen this discussed on here. If it was my apologies. I saw the article last night as it as still top 20 on NYTimes despite coming out a week ago.

The gist of the article is researchers studied half-marathoners and marathoners and saw the marathoners had more leg damage afterwards. Totally makes sense to me. Common sense.

The part that surprised me was the conclusion they drew: "just running long distances is not enough to prepare the leg muscles for the great demands of an endurance event like the marathon. Instead, he says, targeted strength training of the lower body might be needed to inoculate the muscles against the slight tearing and other damage that otherwise occurs during the hours of pounding in a marathon."

"Gym training,” including the use of machines and free weights to develop strength and power in the muscles of your legs, “can very much help to prepare muscles for the stress imposed by these long races,” Dr. del Corso says.

Full article here:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/11/well/move/what-half-marathons-teach-us-about-running-a-marathon.html

What are your thoughts? I'm open to marthoners maybe needing to do some strength work but don't see how the authors conclude that from this study. If I have you go run 100 miles probably every part of your body will have muscle damage. So the key to sustain that is to just do more strength training? The proper type of training is what seems to be most important.

What if any specific leg strength training have any of you done for the marathon?

Also this was in the article, "the half-marathon runners had managed to maintain a steady pace throughout their race. In fact, most had sped up slightly near the end. Their average pace for the final five kilometers tended to be a few seconds faster than for their opening five kilometers."

Does that surprise anyone?

Telling it like it is wrote:

Wejo:

You should have someone edit your threads. I think you had about ten typos in your last post.

Thanks. Edited.

This has been known for a while, not really a new idea. Gains are somewhere around 3-5% in conjunction with proper training.

It's an idiotic conclusion. Covering distance on pavement will cure the legs to the abuse, NOT gym time. In my prime I ran all of my workouts....tempos, intervals, fartleks, each up to 13 miles total distance, in flats. On average, 3-4 runs per week, in flats, off a total volume of 100-120 miles. I could run a marathon in "5K flats".

I'm surprised people are so against this. I don't think anyone is thinking body-building level lifting, but a light amount of weight training would certainly benefit the average marathon runner. Have to build a little bit of strength. Are we saying the top marathon runners don't touch any weights at all?

wejo wrote:

"Gym training,” including the use of machines and free weights to develop strength and power in the muscles of your legs, “can very much help to prepare muscles for the stress imposed by these long races,” Dr. del Corso says.

Umm. Have you ever heard of Jordan Hasay?