D1 Scholarship Question

Post this in the college sub-forum and somebody who knows the answer will help http://www.letsrun.com/forum/forum.php?board=1&category=college

17 year old girl wrote:

Hi

Is there like a general minimum for scholarship money that coaches who are flying you out and everything offer you ? Or could you officially visit and then get offered like a really small amount?

Is there any way to tell (like how they talk to you/frequency) how much you're going to get without asking them?

thanks

Scroll down to the interview with Kevin Sullivan at Michigan and you might get some insights into how Kevin works. Other coaches likely do it differently.

But a coach has, I think, 12.6 scholarships to give out (XC and track are considered 1 sport for grant in aid purposes) so you are not likely to get a full ride.

This is interesting i'm in the same situation

you are in control of your own situation, NOT the university. DO NOT agree to a visit until the scholarship offer is given to you in writing IN ADVANCE.

No need to waste a visit only to find you can't afford it.

IF $ is an issue, say that up front to the coaches when they call you.

YOU ARE IN CONTROL of your choices..

Why on earth wouldn't you want "to ask them."

The answer is there is no minimum. If you are getting a paid visit this early (only allowed for the last few weeks) you must be a priority with them. I would ask before I go there. Some schools --I can think of one ACC-- just don't give full rides. You get a very good aid package though, to this prestige U.

Just say to the AC 'I'm trying to select a top 5 programs list. I'm interested in grant in aid amounts. It's an equal aspect to me, as my interest in the program and fondness for the school as a whole.' In other words 'I like your U a lot, but money is very important to me as well.'

Some of the advice you are getting is questionable at best. Many D1 coaches won't offer an athlete any $$ until they get them on campus and have a chance to get to know them and importantly give their existing student athletes an opportunity to get to know and assess the hs prospect. Why would a college coach promise significant scholarship $$ to a student athlete sight unseen without knowing whether the athlete looks to be a cancer in the locker room and a toxic contributor to team chemistry. Your better and well

Coached schools will decline to offer $$ until they and their exiting athletes have had a chance to interact with the hs prospect. Remember on your official visit the evaluation is bilateral; the school is evaluating you at the same time you are evaluating the school.

As the father of a 17 year old hs senior recruit who recently received a full (100% tuition, room and board) scholarship offer from a P5 university, I don't think you can say that regular and deep pre-visit contact is necessary for a generous offer. My daughter had on again off again contact with the recruiting coach over junior year and summer before senior year and no home visit but still received a full 'ship.

Asking for a range is normal. My daughter received 8 OV. Most coachs put out a range as they didn't want to waste their time or money if their potential offer was an issue. Others put it out as a way to ensure acceptance of the OV. Getting the range was critical to narrowing her list. What she thought was her top school fell off as the coach offered her 50 percent of what others were putting out there. Another wouldn't even tell us what the range or upward potential was for scholarships. Turned out he had almost no money for distance. If you have several options, ask. If you don't have many other invites, knowing before really isn't required.

Did your daughters receive home visits before these ranges were offered?

One home visit came with a full offer and others just jumped to the OV . We are way off the beaten track so the fact a coach made the journey blew our minds.

Interesting. I can only speak from our experience. Daughter has 5 OV and could have had many more but tried to limit contact early when not interested in school. Our daughter has a top 25 mark nationally in her favored event but is not top 10. I suspect that the early scholarship offers are for the most elite performers. In each instance did you or daughter expressly ask for scholarship offer before OV or was it just offered without asking?

I'll say it AGAIN. If money is an issue to you, why on earth would you waste one of your 5 visits on a place that won't tell you an offer before you visit?

The advice isn't questionable AT ALL.

If a coach is offering a visit, he ABSOLUTELY has an idea of what an offer will be. And he can put it in writing in advance. Still doesn't make it binding. But you have it before you visit.

You simply have this conversation. "Coach, I am really thankful for your offer of an official visit. For my family, finances will play an important part of our decision making process. Therefore, I don't want to waste your time and resources with an official visit, if in the end, we can't make the finances work. I am going to select my 5 official visits based on the scholarship information schools can provide me in advance. My family is asking for any specific scholarship information you can provide. We look forward to continued communication. I am certainly interested in your school and look forward to a potential official visit."

Asking a family to give up one of their 5 official visits so the coach can "evaluate" the kid is ridiculous. They have the times on the internet, they should have been communicating regularly, and they know their scholarship availability. They can make an offer before a visit.

Worst case scenario, the coach tells the family "we plan to offer 60%," then if the prospect turns out to be a turd on the visit, the coach simply says "given what we learned during your official visit we have decided that we are not a good fit and we will not be extending you a scholarship offer during the signing period."

It isn't like the coach has a range, 30% if they are a turd, but 70% if I like them as a person. The coach has a responsibility to communicate, evaluate and filter before official visits.

Or you could just follow the advice of NOPE, and put your future in the hands of a coach/program that hopes you are afraid to ask about scholarship, and will be grateful for their lowball offer. If you are rich and the scholarship doesn't matter.....go for it with NOPEs advice.

Hi! 26 yr old female here.

I had a coach of a P5 school fly me out and not offer me ANY money. I was a little naive and didn't expect any (my 200/400/800 JR year PRs were 25 mid, 57 low, 2:14 low) so I don't think it's because they got a bad impression - they just didn't think I'd attend because it was really far from home but academically it was the school I wanted. I ended up committing and they offered books at the end of my senior yr when I ran 56 low and 2:11 low.

So just because they are flying you, don't assume it automatically means a scholarship offer. If that's really a important part of your visit, I would ask up front for at least a range.

The advice from ".............................." is really spot on. That is a respectful way to ask coaches about scholarship money and no decent coach will be put off or offended by that sort of question.

Top 25 is awesome. Congrats. But if you are looking at Michigan Stanford or OR that could mean books. Other schools it's a full. You can gauge where she fits by looking at the current roster and their results. Or be certain and just ask. True sometimes a visit just doesn't work out And many coaches will let their team have veto have power but the range will be based on how their recruiting falls out. If they get all their top recruits across all the events, the offer will fall. If your their top girl, it could be very nice. Some schools won't give any fulls because their conference won't allow them to reduce and it's hard to see who will turn out to be a lemon. One stated outright 50 is their top offer for freshmen. But why game it, if it's important to you. If it's not a game changer and you feel comfortable where you stand, just enjoy your visit.

Nope wrote:

Some of the advice you are getting is questionable at best. Many D1 coaches won't offer an athlete any $$ until they get them on campus and have a chance to get to know them and importantly give their existing student athletes an opportunity to get to know and assess the hs prospect. Why would a college coach promise significant scholarship $$ to a student athlete sight unseen without knowing whether the athlete looks to be a cancer in the locker room and a toxic contributor to team chemistry. Your better and well

Coached schools will decline to offer $$ until they and their exiting athletes have had a chance to interact with the hs prospect. Remember on your official visit the evaluation is bilateral; the school is evaluating you at the same time you are evaluating the school.

Divison 1 coach here (NCAA bubble team) and Nope is mostly right. A lot of serious coaches don't just evaluate you off time alone, but also assess your personality and "upside." This is especially true for women because of their propensity to be more cliquey once on a team. I have had the intention of offering girls who were fast before they came, and eventually told them they could walk on by the end of the visit because they just didn't vibe with the team AT ALL. You might say that they may be different once on the squad, but I am not willing to take a risk.

On the other hand, some girls who are much slower I will offer significant money to secure them early because they have tons of upside and fit well with the team. I usually end up with a mix of both studs and development runners by the end. My two stud freshman girls (sub 4:50 1600m and 10:30 3200m) are just as good as the two 5:05/11:00 girls because they all have great personalities that want to work together. If you combine upside runners with talented team-oriented individuals, you get some nice results.

It's not so cut and dry. Just because you have a mark that is ranked within a certain threshold doesn't guarantee anything over the other girls. Unless that coach is just trying to buy talent. In that case, I wouldn't want to be at that program. They don't have a real vision or philosophy.

Some of what you say is fine...mostly if you are talking about an 'elite' recruit that every school in the nation would want. However, someone who doesn't have those super fast times may not be able to expect to get an offer prior to making a visit.

It's a two way street, scholarships are limited and it's not like just because a recruit is super fast in HS there is some guarantee they will be scoring points at NCAA finals or becoming an All-American. The coach's job is on the line in the long run and expecting them to make an offer prior to spending any time with all recruits is unrealistic.

Therefore your statement of "Asking a family to give up one of their 5 official visits so the coach can "evaluate" the kid is ridiculous. " ... is ridiculous itself. Like I said, in some cases maybe a recruit is strong enough however to give an offer prior to a visit is a big risk for the coach and school. Certainly the coach can say' if it looks like we are a good match we would be able to offer x% but that would be determined during our visit.'

It's a two way street in most cases. There are no absolute answers that can or should be given without knowing specifics of both the athlete and the school in question.

Good luck to the OP! Hopefully the school you select will be the right one for you.

You made my point for me:

Certainly the coach can say' if it looks like we are a good match we would be able to offer x% but that would be determined during our visit.'

That is enough information for someone to decide to visit. The OP is asking about offers because money is important. And every coach knows their intent before they even offer an official visit. That intent can be communicated in a variety of ways.

The coaches know if the kid is a walk-0n, a books kid, a small, medium or large dollar offer. All of that can be communicated to a family before a visit. The coaches know because it is their profession and they have vast experience doing it. Families however often have NO idea. They have no experience, this is NOT their profession. So they don't want to rock the boat, they don't want to offend a coach or school. But for SURE they are trying to figure it out, trying to guess, hence the question on a message board like this.

There are FOR SURE families that think just because they got a piece of mail from a coach that they are a scholarship kid. There are families FOR SURE that think just because they are getting a paid visit must mean there is a big scholarship.

So again, if money is important to a family, those questions should be asked clearly and EARLY. Otherwise everyone is just wasting everyone's time. Now the power 5 school may have enough recruiting budget to fly every tom, dick and harry in to see the football game and not really care if the kid decides to come or not. BUT THE KID ONLY HAS 5 official visits. So if money is important, why take a visit on the HOPE that the scholarship offer will be enough.

It's a bit different too with top distance kids. They usually have been recruited for several years and the "Sr." summer, getting calls from the Fourth. Most AC's try to get a sense of who they are strongest with by August and tell their HC that he should be pitching the recruit can save their parents several $ hundred thousand if they make a choice to come (here).

You get the early visit, clarify a few things, make your best offer and tell them that We're involved with a half-dozen top kids and it's going to have to be a first-come basis, so we would appreciate an early commitment as soon after the OV as possible. Some do, others wait until after the two big post season CC inv.

.............................. wrote:

you are in control of your own situation, NOT the university. DO NOT agree to a visit until the scholarship offer is given to you in writing IN ADVANCE.

No need to waste a visit only to find you can't afford it.

IF $ is an issue, say that up front to the coaches when they call you.

YOU ARE IN CONTROL of your choices..

I could not disagree more. Visit the campus whether on an official visit (they pay) or an unofficial one (you pay). Meet the team. Get a feel for the campus. If you hate the team and the college does nothing for you then why would you go there no matter how much money they dangle (and it is not going to be as much as you think you should get).