What is the deal with Missouri Valley this year, based off 2016 National cross country results they are not losing anyone. Does anyone know if they lost anyone to transfers?
in reference to the dumb conversation going on above about Point Park - they did not have one male athlete compete at the National Championship Meet last year.
Good Ol Days wrote:
What is the deal with Missouri Valley this year, based off 2016 National cross country results they are not losing anyone. Does anyone know if they lost anyone to transfers?
in reference to the dumb conversation going on above about Point Park - they did not have one male athlete compete at the National Championship Meet last year.
never say never bois
also what are the odds they start a team-approved doping program? I say 2-1
Point Park had a national champion in track last year.
Good Ol Days wrote:
What is the deal with Missouri Valley this year, based off 2016 National cross country results they are not losing anyone. Does anyone know if they lost anyone to transfers?
in reference to the dumb conversation going on above about Point Park - they did not have one male athlete compete at the National Championship Meet last year.
They have a really good coach who knows how to recruit. It also helps that it is super easy to get into Missouri Valley. He helped start up the St Mary's program and was the first one to really get some really good recruits in and start the winning tradition there.
as a former rater I can tell you most of the raters just don't do any homework.
they just take where teams finished last year and rank them accordingly this year - they don't even look at who graduated what...let alone new runners even though they give an extensive report from every team in the NAIA before the season begins.
in our conference the commissioners office does a pre-season poll of the top runners (and just lists the results from the previous year - minus the seniors).
that takes what - about 2 minutes worth of work. they don't even attempt to include any new comers at all - ever.
so pre-season polls are about worthless
and in season you still get some raters who will simply take what everyone else ranked (the consensus) the teams the previous week and just copy and paste those for the next rating cycle.
the naia has a good idea in letting each conference have a rater, but too many just don't spend any time on the process and some are just so biased about their own conference they actually hurt the process. At one point our conference commissioner wanted us to rank our conference teams higher because they finished 2nd to Oklahoma city (#1 in country at that time) without realizing that you can be a distant 2nd and a close 2nd - the team was a distant 2nd -as in one minute behind. We had them ranked 15 or so - they ended the season 15th or so.
rankings really aren't that difficult if you have simple head-to-head comparison and updated info on whether team were at full strength or not (some coaches help out a lot by giving this info along with comments on whether the course was fast or slow.....others give nothing).
my solution is to drop rater without their knowing it by not tabulating their results into the polls if all they are doing is the copy paste method...or something to that effect (maybe letting their peers drop them). Those who rate well know who is and who isn't taking the time to it right.
Wow, thanks. Very insightful!
Does this differ big time from the NCAA?
jerrry wrote:
as a former rater I can tell you most of the raters just don't do any homework.
they just take where teams finished last year and rank them accordingly this year - they don't even look at who graduated what...let alone new runners even though they give an extensive report from every team in the NAIA before the season begins.
in our conference the commissioners office does a pre-season poll of the top runners (and just lists the results from the previous year - minus the seniors).
that takes what - about 2 minutes worth of work. they don't even attempt to include any new comers at all - ever.
so pre-season polls are about worthless
and in season you still get some raters who will simply take what everyone else ranked (the consensus) the teams the previous week and just copy and paste those for the next rating cycle.
the naia has a good idea in letting each conference have a rater, but too many just don't spend any time on the process and some are just so biased about their own conference they actually hurt the process. At one point our conference commissioner wanted us to rank our conference teams higher because they finished 2nd to Oklahoma city (#1 in country at that time) without realizing that you can be a distant 2nd and a close 2nd - the team was a distant 2nd -as in one minute behind. We had them ranked 15 or so - they ended the season 15th or so.
rankings really aren't that difficult if you have simple head-to-head comparison and updated info on whether team were at full strength or not (some coaches help out a lot by giving this info along with comments on whether the course was fast or slow.....others give nothing).
my solution is to drop rater without their knowing it by not tabulating their results into the polls if all they are doing is the copy paste method...or something to that effect (maybe letting their peers drop them). Those who rate well know who is and who isn't taking the time to it right.
So... you're saying Point Park is top 10 material but the raters screwed them.
Good Ol Days wrote:
in reference to the dumb conversation going on above about Point Park - they did not have one male athlete compete at the National Championship Meet last year.
Will they get one this year though?
What's with the making fun of Point Park thing?
yeah boi wrote:
jerrry wrote:as a former rater I can tell you most of the raters just don't do any homework.
they just take where teams finished last year and rank them accordingly this year - they don't even look at who graduated what...let alone new runners even though they give an extensive report from every team in the NAIA before the season begins.
in our conference the commissioners office does a pre-season poll of the top runners (and just lists the results from the previous year - minus the seniors).
that takes what - about 2 minutes worth of work. they don't even attempt to include any new comers at all - ever.
so pre-season polls are about worthless
and in season you still get some raters who will simply take what everyone else ranked (the consensus) the teams the previous week and just copy and paste those for the next rating cycle.
the naia has a good idea in letting each conference have a rater, but too many just don't spend any time on the process and some are just so biased about their own conference they actually hurt the process. At one point our conference commissioner wanted us to rank our conference teams higher because they finished 2nd to Oklahoma city (#1 in country at that time) without realizing that you can be a distant 2nd and a close 2nd - the team was a distant 2nd -as in one minute behind. We had them ranked 15 or so - they ended the season 15th or so.
rankings really aren't that difficult if you have simple head-to-head comparison and updated info on whether team were at full strength or not (some coaches help out a lot by giving this info along with comments on whether the course was fast or slow.....others give nothing).
my solution is to drop rater without their knowing it by not tabulating their results into the polls if all they are doing is the copy paste method...or something to that effect (maybe letting their peers drop them). Those who rate well know who is and who isn't taking the time to it right.
So... you're saying Point Park is top 10 material but the raters screwed them.
basically yes
OrWeCouldBe wrote:
What's with the making fun of Point Park thing?
I'm not totally sure what the deal is with that. However, Point Park's coach is a nutcase. Saw him at two meets we attended last year and both times he went off on an athlete of his that seemed to have a bad day.
Every time I see him there are fireworks of some kind.
There are gonna be fireworks at the NAIA xc championship meet when point park goes 1-5 and scores 15 to win it all! Pioneer pride bois!
Large and in charge wrote:
There are gonna be fireworks at the NAIA xc championship meet when point park goes 1-5 and scores 15 to win it all! Pioneer pride bois!
you know it! boofalo gonna make some magic!
Horizon wrote:
OrWeCouldBe wrote:What's with the making fun of Point Park thing?
I'm not totally sure what the deal is with that. However, Point Park's coach is a nutcase. Saw him at two meets we attended last year and both times he went off on an athlete of his that seemed to have a bad day.
Every time I see him there are fireworks of some kind.
Yeah one time right after his athlete finished a track race he ran over to him and threatened to take away his scholarship if he ran another bad time.
Also, he has coached at like 5 colleges in 7 years so he never stays somewhere for long.
jerrry wrote:
as a former rater I can tell you most of the raters just don't do any homework.
they just take where teams finished last year and rank them accordingly this year - they don't even look at who graduated what...let alone new runners even though they give an extensive report from every team in the NAIA before the season begins.
in our conference the commissioners office does a pre-season poll of the top runners (and just lists the results from the previous year - minus the seniors).
that takes what - about 2 minutes worth of work. they don't even attempt to include any new comers at all - ever.
so pre-season polls are about worthless
and in season you still get some raters who will simply take what everyone else ranked (the consensus) the teams the previous week and just copy and paste those for the next rating cycle.
the naia has a good idea in letting each conference have a rater, but too many just don't spend any time on the process and some are just so biased about their own conference they actually hurt the process. At one point our conference commissioner wanted us to rank our conference teams higher because they finished 2nd to Oklahoma city (#1 in country at that time) without realizing that you can be a distant 2nd and a close 2nd - the team was a distant 2nd -as in one minute behind. We had them ranked 15 or so - they ended the season 15th or so.
rankings really aren't that difficult if you have simple head-to-head comparison and updated info on whether team were at full strength or not (some coaches help out a lot by giving this info along with comments on whether the course was fast or slow.....others give nothing).
my solution is to drop rater without their knowing it by not tabulating their results into the polls if all they are doing is the copy paste method...or something to that effect (maybe letting their peers drop them). Those who rate well know who is and who isn't taking the time to it right.
AGREED! A few problems with the ratings system in the NAIA.
1st, because of budgets, there aren't enough head to head matchups to really determine accurate rankings. Some teams will have seasons filled with fast courses and inflated ratings, and others will race on difficult courses with difficult conditions and be underrated. It seems to me that the NCAA teams may have more head to head matchups or common opponents to help determine accurate rankings. Pre-nationals certainly helps, along with some of the other big D1 meets
2nd, even if you have a rater who cares and wants to do a good job, it can be a tedious process on top of coaching, recruiting, managing teams, fundraising and teaching. Wading through results and inaccurate race reports or no race report at all results in inaccurate ratings.
trackrunner492 wrote:
Horizon wrote:I'm not totally sure what the deal is with that. However, Point Park's coach is a nutcase. Saw him at two meets we attended last year and both times he went off on an athlete of his that seemed to have a bad day.
Every time I see him there are fireworks of some kind.
Yeah one time right after his athlete finished a track race he ran over to him and threatened to take away his scholarship if he ran another bad time.
Also, he has coached at like 5 colleges in 7 years so he never stays somewhere for long.
well duh he wasn't good enough to coach here so he went to point park. carlow can beat them any day.
jerrrry wrote:
yeah boi wrote:So... you're saying Point Park is top 10 material but the raters screwed them.
basically yes
mens or womens?
Check out Northwest Christian University's Men's team. They've got major potential. I saw them in The stride reports NAIA predictions article, and I think there is some definite promise
POF wrote:
Check out Point Park's Men's team. They've got major potential. I saw them in The stride reports NAIA predictions article, and I think there is some definite promise
ftfy
mister fixer wrote:
POF wrote:Check out Point Park's Men's team. They've got major potential. I saw them in The stride reports NAIA predictions article, and I think there is some definite promise
ftfy
stupid pio-queer. carlow can beat point park easy.
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