Kids Won't Buy In

16:00 for a 5K during the summer isn't bad- sounds like even then they still have a lot of room to improve inseason...

If what they are suggesting is what they are used to it's no wonder they didn't progress with your workouts.

That's a serious regimen they have there, that could be tweaked a bit but is definitely better than what you're doing, which looks like it is geared more towards running novices.

This is a no-brainer. You are a troll of the worst kind. You don't have a clue what you're doing. What are you trying to accomplish -- kill them AND have them hate the sport forever?

Why the hell would you ever have kids running 35mpw attempting 90 minute runs? Why the hell to you have then running those long repeats? So many reps?

Seriously, look at this sh!t

Monday: Workout Day

Race pace based/V02

3 x 2000m w/300m

8 x 1000m

10 x 800m

5 x 1600m

Wednesday: Workout Day

Threshold based

4-6 Mile Tempo

8 x cruise 1200s

3 x 15-21 min tempo

Who are you? John Wayne Gacy?

It's tough being a new coach; unless the previous coach was a known idiot you're going to be second-guessed. It will take you 4 years before you have your own team, as long as there are athletes who were coached by someone else there's going to be doubt in these athletes' minds. You can't kick the kids off, this is HS, you can't recruit 20 of your own athletes. You need to compromise, communicate with them, convince them that your program is sound.

Admittedly I didn't analyze your plan or the previous coach' plan. I've watched some great coaches deal with what you're dealing with, it took them a while even though they were experienced coaches with known reputations.

Don't forget about the 5x18

And make sure to get all the kids' numbers, especially the girl's team

You misread the post. Those are the workouts of the old, successful coach.

Aside from 3x15-21 min tempo, I'd absolutely favor those workouts over the new ones for juniors and seniors used to the work.

TL; DR

Seriously, did you really expect anyone to read all that?

NOT WINNING RIGHT AWAY IS OKAY

I coached something every year for 30 years as a teacher-coach. Usually I coached multiple sports each year. I also was in charge of a strength and conditioning program for 8 years and was certified as a CSCS by the N.S.C.A.

For the most part I see the programs listed as being okay. However the most important principle to teach is it must be "our," program not "my," program. Make it Team whenever possible.

Realize that they have learned a lot from their previous coaches. This is a good thing. Make it work to your advantage!

You might elect captains and sit down with them at the beginning of the season and come up with a program that everyone can believe in. (Do not tell them they have to do this. Merely suggest that it would be best for all to do it as a team. They are young and can benefit.)

The greatest thing I ever heard as a CC coach is that "first you get one, then the next year you'll get two or three, and on it goes." You have an opportunity with the younger guys. If you show them that you care about them as people, listen, and are open to change they will eventually follow you. NOT WINNING RIGHT AWAY IS OKAY

You may not realize it and kids will never show it but they are afraid of adults.

I'm pretty sure that you are knowledgeable as a coach. Keep learning and changing. "Sometimes the younger must teach the older!" Abiding by that principle helped me lead my team to our school's first league title in almost 30 years!

KIDS WILL BUY IN

There are many factors involved in winning in any sport. CC is no different.

I can post some incredibly reliable high school workouts. But that is really only a small part of what needs to take place to win.

I've seen a former 2 X state champion coach spend 5 years with a different high school track & field team not be able to escape the cellar of his league. I've also seen some great young athletes struggle as coaches.

Community, communication, enthusiasm, knowledge, dedication, discipline, and on it goes, may need to change for the better for your team to win.

The school you coach at is a factor although I personally believe you can win anywhere. It might take longer to win in some places than others. Some coaches have a five year plan.

Vince Lombardi had a five year plan but it turned out he did not need one. But it depends on WHERE you are. Losing is not always a total reflection of the coach. It's like having a championship catcher on a baseball team, but now we need the other pieces to the puzzle.

Another example of a HS coach with no credentials trying to think he knows something. Kids are smart you are a horrible coach.

90 minute runs? Are you kidding me?

Doing 2 workouts a day?

3 to 4 miles the day before a race?

Is this a joke?

These are HS kids of which 90% are just doing it for fun. Keep up the good work because by the end of the season the majority of your team will quit or be injured and they will have a new coach next year.

You should have talked to the coach before. They were winners... why change the program? Listen to your athletes. Let them feel involved. Be a coach not a dictator.

You should have followed the old program. If you thought something should change talk to the team, explain why and try it. But that needs to be gradual, not all at once.

Gradually introduce more of your philosophy as the athletes cycle through your program.

Part of being a coach is listening to your athletes and being flexible. These are kids.

Be fair before you criticize. You obviously did not read his entire post.

Lydiard said that you do not have to weight train if you have hills. Training programs do not have to be complicated to be successful, especially in high school.

But you must be good at listening to the kids and then considering what they have to say. Too many young coaches and even successful older coaches want to force things.

In my case I sometimes took losing personally and you cannot do that. Each kid is important.

The running you are suggesting seems to be a good mix of things.

This is the kind of thread that people should take interest in. There must be a few veteran coaches who could help out here.

Many silly threads get 200+ hits. It's about time we had another good one.

One issue I see with your training is there is no weekly long run. You have one if there isn't a race, but most weeks you will be racing. Consider having Monday be a long run. Have one main workout day. Two other days can be strides or hills after an easy run as supplemental work. Also, you may want to replace your 4x4 min race pace workout with a similar workout the other coach used to do. The kids may simply prefer intervals over running for time. 1000 or 1200 intervals would accomplish the same thing as your 4x4. Lastly, if the previous runners were doing 6 mile tempos, why hold them back and have them only do 3?

Other than that, I would try to make it fun. Many runners do this to be social. Have a team camping trip. Do pasta dinners. Vary the location of practices and workouts. Go to different parks. Do a fun workout once in a while. We had two workouts that fit this definition. One was designed to be a fartlek. Get groups of 4-5 and secretly assign each person a time interval of 30s-2 minutes. The group runs together at an easy pace, then at any time one of the kids can yell out their number and the group runs a fartlek for that duration until each runner has yelled her number once or twice.

Another fun workout was done on an 800 meter loop. Pair up fast with slow runners. They run in opposite directions (big open field). They run easy until they cross paths then run tempo until they see each other again. Do this for 20-30 min.

Theodore Bundy wrote:

This is a no-brainer. You are a troll of the worst kind. You don't have a clue what you're doing. What are you trying to accomplish -- kill them AND have them hate the sport forever?

Why the hell would you ever have kids running 35mpw attempting 90 minute runs? Why the hell to you have then running those long repeats? So many reps?

Seriously, look at this sh!t

Monday: Workout Day

Race pace based/V02

3 x 2000m w/300m

8 x 1000m

10 x 800m

5 x 1600m

Wednesday: Workout Day

Threshold based

4-6 Mile Tempo

8 x cruise 1200s

3 x 15-21 min tempo

Who are you? John Wayne Gacy?

Go away fool. First re-read, slowly. Those are not his workouts. Second, genius, they do ONE of those per workout. Not ALL of them. Sheesh.

Speed Doctor wrote:

Another example of a HS coach with no credentials trying to think he knows something. Kids are smart you are a horrible coach.

90 minute runs? Are you kidding me?

Doing 2 workouts a day?

3 to 4 miles the day before a race?

Is this a joke?

These are HS kids of which 90% are just doing it for fun. Keep up the good work because by the end of the season the majority of your team will quit or be injured and they will have a new coach next year.

You're being sarcastic right? What you are listing above is actually right on for any serious senior running varsity.

The old schedule looks better to me.

It has to be said: it's likely some combination of them disagreeing with your training program based on the success they had previously and personality.

I've been on teams with head and assistant coaches and some kids would be defiant of a specific coach because of the way workouts were given, and then a different coach would give the same workout but with a better attitude and they would do it no question.

If things don't get better by year three, it's almost certainly a coaching problem, not a kids not buying in problem.

Burned wrote:

You should have talked to the coach before. They were winners... why change the program? Listen to your athletes. Let them feel involved. Be a coach not a dictator.

You should have followed the old program. If you thought something should change talk to the team, explain why and try it. But that needs to be gradual, not all at once.

Gradually introduce more of your philosophy as the athletes cycle through your program.

Part of being a coach is listening to your athletes and being flexible. These are kids.

Probably the right answer given it was a highly performing team. The smartest choice would have been to change the first-year program and let the other kids "age out" of the old program.