Let's be clear Ritz, Galen etc are not victims, they are cheats.

Agreed.

Really sad to see Ritz's legacy tarnished.

"Ritz is not 'brave' for his comments - they were at a Grand Jury - he had to tell the truth or go to prison."May I suggest a good Civics class in high school or your local community college? It would be good to learn what a Grand Jury is and the conditions under which a person might be subject to criminal prosecution.

The simple fact is usatf and IAAF knew exactly what is going on an did nothing.

They are still doing nothing.

Is it cheating if there are no rules?

Well, I figured NOP guys were skirting or slightly going over the legal barrier, but still, I don't think this really helps track/running much since it's more like hey, we just penalized these guys for taking l-carnitine, and at the same time there's an army of East Africans on EPO, norandosterone, furosemide, etc, and no doping programs to hear of. It's a complete farce!

Athletes will continue to cheat simply because the penalty when caught is not severe enough and the big shoe corporations could can less what athletes are putting in their body as long as the shoe company is making a lot of money.

If there was a banned substance list and an athlete tested positive and they were banned for life (from all sports) that would stop a lot of the cheaters.

Most if not all of the running world records are a complete joke, sad but true.

Cheats not victims wrote:he had to tell the truth or go to prison.

Not even kinda true

Do you feel better now?

Just like rape. If she was dressed a certain way she must be asking for it.

This is ridiculous.

We know Dathan knew something was sketchy, told his wife about it, took IV anyway.

Dathan never supported Kara etc. when the propublica story broke

Perjury (lying under oath) is a punishable by jail

He chose running fast over being honest and fair, he now has to live with that.

Kinda true. Lying to a grand jury is a crime. I say kinda because whether it would be prosecuted and result in a prison term is questionable for sure. He also could have given evasive answers ("I don't recall"). He also might have been able to plead the 5th if there is the potential for criminal prosecution for his acts (not likely). So not definitely true, but kinda true.

Add Webb to your shit list ..although not probably on the dope (I'd say he did dope when run 3:46.91) while with AlSal ..he saw plenty while with NOP and refused to give any type of statement.

Cheats not victims wrote: Let's be clear. Ritz is not "brave" for his comments - they were at a Grand Jury - he had to tell the truth or go to prison.

And don't even start on Galen or Mo...

Let's be clear. You guys are compulsive pettifogs who are piling on in a bizarre campaign to destroy the reputations and careers of America's best athletes on the basis of so-called "cheating" on stupidly detailed and intricate mazes of rules mostly inapplicable in real life. Only in America could the leading running forum focus its attentions on twisting a reasonable ban on major PEDs into an officious effort to censor and control every move of our major athletes.

All that's going on in Oregon is maneuvers with various nutritional supplements, ointments, salves and other nostrums, while Caster Semenya and the like make a farce of our sport. Don't you have any idea how vindictive and obsessive you sound?

Ritz knew,all about Salazar's dirty reputation before he joined NOP. Im positive that Brad Hudson told him. He went anyway. I'm sure that money played a huge part. Just proves that Ritz has situational ethics. He had a price.

WORD. We are obsessing over this while the Africans use EPO (luckily it's being exposed) and Semenya runs rings around women athletes. USADA and WADA are willing to prosecute minutia while ignoring the major crimes. It's all for the goal of keeping the pipeline full of doping busts (to prove that they are on the job and catching the dirty cheaters) while at the same time keeping the stars of the show on the gravy train.

Let's be clear. You guys are compulsive pettifogs who are piling on in a bizarre campaign to destroy the reputations and careers of America's best athletes on the basis of so-called "cheating" on stupidly detailed and intricate mazes of rules mostly inapplicable in real life. Only in America could the leading running forum focus its attentions on twisting a reasonable ban on major PEDs into an officious effort to censor and control every move of our major athletes.

All that's going on in Oregon is maneuvers with various nutritional supplements, ointments, salves and other nostrums, while Caster Semenya and the like make a farce of our sport. Don't you have any idea how vindictive and obsessive you sound?

This this this this this THIIIIIS!

It's crazy, besides Farah, NOP athletes aren't even far-and-away the best athletes in the sport compared to the East Africans, yet are being vilified by ravenous forum posters and the media. What does that say about the rest of the competition then? Yet no one could give a single shit.

No, the fact that we give a crap about whether our own athletes are cheating makes us better than them. The Russians love to play this game all the time, "Oh, you think we're bad, look at them!" No. Americans have a reputation for being stupidly naive and optimistic sometimes but one of our more endearing qualities is that we sometimes try to better ourselves.

"Look at the other guys" is seriously not a good reason to condone doping in sport and endangering athletes' lives and health.

Other countries have their own problems and we try to handle them the best we can, but it's easier for us to put our own house in order AND WE CAN'T EVEN DO THAT.

And honestly if a bunch of Ethiopians want to take some money from American athletes I can think of worse places it can go.

STRIP ALL MEDALS,, RECORDS AND CHAMPIONSHIP FROM RUPP!!CHEATER

Montesquieu wrote:

May I suggest a good Civics class in high school or your local community college? It would be good to learn what a Grand Jury is and the conditions under which a person might be subject to criminal prosecution.

[quote]Cheats not victims wrote:

Let's be clear.

And might I suggest you don't act like a smug douche and recognize the comment for what it is. He makes a good point regardless of how he understands the procedures of our legal system.

Money brings out the worst wrote:

Ritz knew,all about Salazar's dirty reputation before he joined NOP. Im positive that Brad Hudson told him. He went anyway. I'm sure that money played a huge part. Just proves that Ritz has situational ethics. He had a price.

That doesn't mean that Ritz still couldn't be a victim.

Fox News has now had a reputation of abusing women. Does that mean that any woman that goes to work there and is abused isn't a victim?