Working on speed for summer base training

I would simply stick to strides and hills. These sprints will get your runners hurt!

Bump. Any advice?

Why not just incorporate both? You're right that the 200's are more speed endurance, and the 50s are more pure speed - both of which are important to develop for your runners.

Maybe one week do the 200 workout and the next do the 50s?

Also like the poster said above, nothing wrong with doing some strides. Sometimes it's nice just to run fast and not have to worry about timing yourself and all that jazz. Just get the legs moving. Understand the summer isn't the time to rack up super speedy runners, just kids with great endurance and good leg turnover.

Okay. Lets say that I alternate these two workouts for ~12 weeks. What would follow these speed-wise? Would doing strides and the occasional (10-16x200m w 200jog) be enough or is there something else that would work better?

The second progression is good, and maybe limit it to 1 session per week, alternating between a top speed (5x60 type) and an equivalent hill workout for acceleration. The 200s are, like you said, for speed endurance, and that kind of training is good for an 800 runner mid-late season workout by towards a peak.

The general philosophy for training cycles is that within a cycle, you start out training at speeds on the high end and low end of your target, i.e. during base you do easy/moderate/tempo for low end and hill sprints and top speed for high end. As the season progresses, keep the sprints but add more race pace stuff. At the end, cut the sprints and all the tempo and do race pace and recovery only.

alabama runner wrote:

The second progression is good, and maybe limit it to 1 session per week, alternating between a top speed (5x60 type) and an equivalent hill workout for acceleration. The 200s are, like you said, for speed endurance, and that kind of training is good for an 800 runner mid-late season workout by towards a peak.

The general philosophy for training cycles is that within a cycle, you start out training at speeds on the high end and low end of your target, i.e. during base you do easy/moderate/tempo for low end and hill sprints and top speed for high end. As the season progresses, keep the sprints but add more race pace stuff. At the end, cut the sprints and all the tempo and do race pace and recovery only.

Yeah, that was what I was leaning towards. Doing the second progression to work on pure speed with hills as well during the base. After a while though, I'm thinking of putting some speed endurance when the season is beginning that isn't taxing as well as cutting the shorter hill reps in favor of longer ones as well as speeding up the tempos and decreasing their length slightly.

So, at some point your runners will be running 70 mpw and these drills at the same time? That means they will be running 65-75 min and then these speed drills for 40 min at least?

3:00 recov for fast 40s, 50s and 60s is too damn much. I don't think I have the definitive word on speed development, but I can tell you it isn't what is outlined above.

What will they try next? wrote:

So, at some point your runners will be running 70 mpw and these drills at the same time? That means they will be running 65-75 min and then these speed drills for 40 min at least?

3:00 recov for fast 40s, 50s and 60s is too damn much. I don't think I have the definitive word on speed development, but I can tell you it isn't what is outlined above.

I politely disagree. I think short 90% effort or so sprints with long long recoveries are the first step in developing some seriously good form, turnover, speed, speed endurance (by building off that). The lactic acid build up from these short bursts, long recoveries is very minimal, I would even say if you are starting this out with a first/second year runner, these ARE ESSENTIAL, especially versions like 8 second hill sprints with 3-5 minute recovery. For the short hill sprint workout, Id start out with 4-5 8 second hill sprints with 3-5 minute recovery, building up to 10 seconds X10 with 3-5 minute rest over the course of summer. I took my time and this winter I built up to 8-9, and after the first few sessions. I WOULD SAY I FELT BETTER THE NEXT DAY VS NOT DOING THEM. Kinda like how strides leave you a little fresher in weird way because you've activated other muscles and you get a more wholesome feel for lack of a better term. HILL SPRINTS ARE NOT MEANT TO TAKE ANY RECOVERY TIME, usually I do the short version the day before my tempo! It sets my week up for a nice progression of long run, run+hill sprints, tempo, easy two days. All this other stuff is of course up to you and the runner, just an example of how my week is kinda set up.

Upperclassmen (assuming HS runners) could maybe do one short speed session the day after long run (say Monday) and a slightly longer speed endurance sesh a few days later (like thursday). I dont usually do anything too taxing the day after the speed endurance session (which for me is on thursdays) , usually a fartleck on friday or something during the base phase.

They way I do my longer sesh is 100-120 meter sprint with 3-5 minute rest, or 15-20 seconds uphill sprinting with 3+ min break. REPS are less, I built up to 6 total last summer for this workout. HS people, wouldn't recommend more than 5 in a sesh.

Hope this helps!

Thank you SPRINTS WORK, that was fantastic!

You mentioned doing the 4-5 building up to 8 short hill sprints the day before a tempo run. Would you advise something similar to this for a weekly schedule?:

Mon: Long run

Tue: easy + short hill sprints

Wed: AE tempo

Thu: easy

Fri: easy + strides

Sat: speed endurance session like you said 3-5 100-120m sprints

Sun: easy

Would having the two speed days (or 1.5) be too much in July/August? Do you think swapping the Saturday session with a CV workout (like 3-5x 1mile followed with 3-5x 30 second hills at moderately hard pace followed by 3-5x 15-30sec fast striders) would be more beneficial?

This thread has been very helpful so far by the way:)

Ushap wrote:

Thank you SPRINTS WORK, that was fantastic!

You mentioned doing the 4-5 building up to 8 short hill sprints the day before a tempo run. Would you advise something similar to this for a weekly schedule?:

Mon: Long run

Tue: easy + short hill sprints

Wed: AE tempo

Thu: easy

Fri: easy + strides

Sat: speed endurance session like you said 3-5 100-120m sprints

Sun: easy

Would having the two speed days (or 1.5) be too much in July/August? Do you think swapping the Saturday session with a CV workout (like 3-5x 1mile followed with 3-5x 30 second hills at moderately hard pace followed by 3-5x 15-30sec fast striders) would be more beneficial?

This thread has been very helpful so far by the way:)

Yes its two much. Your going to fry your CNS. And that is not a CV workout that is an injury waiting to happen workout thank me later

Bump for visibility.

Here is what Kellog had to say and what I loosely follow with my athletes.

Secondly, I like the look of that large workout with long repeats hills and strides. I think I might try it some this summer.

Always include relaxed buildups, strides, and hills (and possibly drills) in your routine, even during base training. Buildups or strides should be EMPHASIZED 1-2 times per week, and they should also be done before and after many high-end aerobic workouts. If you're at altitude above 8,000 ft. and can't get to sea-level, you need to do some of these "quickies" nearly every day. As the competitive season approaches, these buildups and strides can be run with a little more determination (i.e., WORK on your speed, as opposed to merely "staying in touch" with it). Every now and then, include a time trial of 2-7 minutes at 90%-95% effort after your buildups (this keeps a small middle-distance component in your base work). Another middle distance workout consisting of structured Fartlek (repeats of 1-3 min. at a fairly fast but still predominantly aerobic pace) can be substituted for a workout of strides once every 2-3 weeks.

Anyway, SPEEDWORK. Assuming you've been doing the above speed maintenance stuff, you might start your PURE SPRINT work with 2 sets of (2 x 7-10 secs.) nearly flat-out. Get a running start before you blast the 7-10 secs. portions. Take about 1 min. walking rest between the two reps in a set and take 8 min. walking rest between sets. That's basically the whole workout right there (not counting a thorough warmup and a short cool-down).

The second time you try this workout (about 10 days later), increase the number of reps in each set to 3.

The next sprint workout (another 7-10 days later) can be along the lines of 4 x 150m at 98% effort, with 1 min. walking rest between each.

From there, proceed to 3 x 300m at 98%-100% effort with rest periods of about 3-4 min. of walking.

The next sprint workout is 2 sets of 2 x 400m at 95%-98% effort, with only about 1 min. between reps and full recovery (nearly 10 min.) between sets. You may have to jog a little or do a few "high knees" steps prior to the start of the second set to feel like you're ready to go again.

If you survive those workouts, you ought to run a time trial of 700m full-blast (start out very fast, only pacing yourself a tiny bit) about 5 days after the 2 x (2 x 400m) workout (include another hard but lower-intensity workout in between those two). About 2 days later, run a time trial of 1,000m. Again, get out FAST on this thing.

It's tricky sometimes to fit in other key workouts and races while doing this really fast stuff. You don't know for sure if you'll get sore from sprints like these; nor do you know how LONG you'll be sore. But if your schedule allows, these workouts can fortify your "quick energy" systems (creatine phosphate) and can enable you to buffer (and reuse) lactate better during races of all distances.

This is similar to what the 5x60m workout looks like. And also bump

I'm following a Steve Magness approach for my training the rest of the year and focusing on the 5K. Note that I am basically crafting my plan based on his book, The Science of Running.

In my 8 weeks of "base"

I'm doing 8-10 Hill Sprints for the first 4 weeks once a week which then transitions into the same quantities but flat sprints.

Full recovery for each rep, approx 2-3 mins

I don't have any other real speed endurance work except for doing 1 min surges @ 5K during a steady run or a progression run from easy to LT pace.

Bump. Any more advice?